Two-year old denied boarding (and parents are not)
Sep 22, 2013, 6:52 am
#76
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Tyrone,EU
Programs: Avios Hunter
Posts: 2,829
I rarely comment on child related threads, as not having any I don't feel qualified.
But as an infrequent flyer, I'm not sure I would know that any stipulation regarding 2 year olds was an airline regulation as opposed to a or legal/safety requirement.
Given I wouldn't know that, I'd suggest that even in the OP knew it was against the law to do so, he should still retrospectively inform the airline of the gap in implementing the law, to protect others who might unknowingly be allowed to fly non-2years on their lap, against safety regulations.
But as an infrequent flyer, I'm not sure I would know that any stipulation regarding 2 year olds was an airline regulation as opposed to a or legal/safety requirement.
Given I wouldn't know that, I'd suggest that even in the OP knew it was against the law to do so, he should still retrospectively inform the airline of the gap in implementing the law, to protect others who might unknowingly be allowed to fly non-2years on their lap, against safety regulations.
Sep 22, 2013, 8:18 am
#77
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: London
Programs: BAEC, KOP 305
Posts: 192
I find it incredible that Dave Noble and LTN Phobia think a complaint is out of order in this situation. Perhaps they don't have children themselves? I'd certainly be upset if my two year old had been offloaded on her own like this. However, honest mistakes happen, and it could be that her age had simply been overlooked. Alas, that was seemingly not the case: when notified about the issue, the staff's response was to threaten to offload the parents as well!
If this is not reason to complain, then I don't know what is.
If this is not reason to complain, then I don't know what is.
Sep 22, 2013, 8:30 am
#78
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 40,288
Rules can sometimes be a pain in the bum so it's nice to see some common sense was used here. Trouble with doing that is.....and I found out the hard way.There's always someone who will want to stick you in for breaking them.
Sep 22, 2013, 8:55 am
#79
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 22,248
The need to report this breach of a rule doesn't depend on whether the OP agreed to go along with it or not. Aviation is highly regulated for obvious reasons. One of BAs employees/agents has decided they will break those rules where it suits them. This may not have been a dangerous breach, but what other rules will they breach?
I am surprised to see FT'ers suggesting the OP is at fault here. The airline put pressure on him to do this and left him with little alternative bearing in mind he was travelling with a two year old. He hasn't done anything wrong at all.
He should tell BA what happened, that he was told he had to travel with the child on his lap or he would be offloaded, and let BA deal with this.
I am surprised to see FT'ers suggesting the OP is at fault here. The airline put pressure on him to do this and left him with little alternative bearing in mind he was travelling with a two year old. He hasn't done anything wrong at all.
He should tell BA what happened, that he was told he had to travel with the child on his lap or he would be offloaded, and let BA deal with this.
I couldn't agree more.
Sep 22, 2013, 12:08 pm
#80
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,379
DV - Totally agree with you & PG. It would be tragic if some of the wilder comments above caused the OP not to advise BA of what has happened. The OP took all reasonable steps to advise BA of the age of his child and make the relevant arrangements, and a representative of BA, not for the first time, incorrectly dealt with a subsequent BA administrative error and caused the aircraft Commander to breach his or her responsibilities under Section 60 of the Air Navigation Order.
While I agree with the others that the OP won't get in trouble over this, it's ridiculous to complain about it now. Either it's a safety concern - in which case they shouldn't have done it - or it's not. And no, I don't think a gate agent giving 48 hours leeway on the age of a lap infant remotely implies they will happily breach more important safety guidelines. I think we can all agree that there was no safety issue whatsoever in this decision.
Sep 22, 2013, 12:18 pm
#81
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: London
Posts: 3,459
No they didn't. They told ONE person, and then deliberately covered up the fact they had a 2 year old on their lap, while knowing it's against policy/law, to the BA staff onboard the plane.
While I agree with the others that the OP won't get in trouble over this, it's ridiculous to complain about it now. Either it's a safety concern - in which case they shouldn't have done it - or it's not. And no, I don't think a gate agent giving 48 hours leeway on the age of a lap infant remotely implies they will happily breach more important safety guidelines. I think we can all agree that there was no safety issue whatsoever in this decision.
While I agree with the others that the OP won't get in trouble over this, it's ridiculous to complain about it now. Either it's a safety concern - in which case they shouldn't have done it - or it's not. And no, I don't think a gate agent giving 48 hours leeway on the age of a lap infant remotely implies they will happily breach more important safety guidelines. I think we can all agree that there was no safety issue whatsoever in this decision.
You may be confident the agent will not break other rules ("leeway" to you) in future from these facts, but I'm not. I've never heard of BA doing something like this before and it should be reported.
Sep 23, 2013, 3:33 am
#83
Join Date: Mar 2012
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You are reversing the situation. BA told the OP to do this. He didn't want to do it. BA has broken a regulation. The OP hasn't. He did what the airline told him to do. He didn't cover up anything.
You may be confident the agent will not break other rules ("leeway" to you) in future from these facts, but I'm not. I've never heard of BA doing something like this before and it should be reported.
You may be confident the agent will not break other rules ("leeway" to you) in future from these facts, but I'm not. I've never heard of BA doing something like this before and it should be reported.
The check in agent represents the airline. Let's assume for a moment that OP had no idea what FT was, and was just a holiday maker being told that his 2yr old had to sit on his lap by a check in agent. Why would they then report it to different staff? They've been told it's their only option.
This is a breach of rules by BA's outstation representatives and it needs to be addressed.
Sep 23, 2013, 5:13 am
#85
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My 2 year old was offloaded in Dubai at Easter, despite being on the same PNR as the rest of us! Flight outbound had gone tech so BA sent a smaller aircraft and had to offload a few people.
Me, my wife and our 5 year old were transferred over, he was booted off. BA offered him a 5-star hotel for the day plus 200 if he agreed to take the evening flight (he was given a letter at the desk saying this) but he blew a big raspberry and dug his head into leg, which I took as a 'no'. Common sense then prevailed ....
(And I don't mean I persuaded him of the value of a 200 voucher!)
Me, my wife and our 5 year old were transferred over, he was booted off. BA offered him a 5-star hotel for the day plus 200 if he agreed to take the evening flight (he was given a letter at the desk saying this) but he blew a big raspberry and dug his head into leg, which I took as a 'no'. Common sense then prevailed ....
(And I don't mean I persuaded him of the value of a 200 voucher!)
Sep 23, 2013, 6:49 am
#86
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mostly London
Programs: BAEC Gold, Amex and some hotels
Posts: 1,318
My 2 year old was offloaded in Dubai at Easter, despite being on the same PNR as the rest of us! Flight outbound had gone tech so BA sent a smaller aircraft and had to offload a few people.
Me, my wife and our 5 year old were transferred over, he was booted off. BA offered him a 5-star hotel for the day plus 200 if he agreed to take the evening flight (he was given a letter at the desk saying this) but he blew a big raspberry and dug his head into leg, which I took as a 'no'. Common sense then prevailed ....
(And I don't mean I persuaded him of the value of a 200 voucher!)
Me, my wife and our 5 year old were transferred over, he was booted off. BA offered him a 5-star hotel for the day plus 200 if he agreed to take the evening flight (he was given a letter at the desk saying this) but he blew a big raspberry and dug his head into leg, which I took as a 'no'. Common sense then prevailed ....
(And I don't mean I persuaded him of the value of a 200 voucher!)
Sep 23, 2013, 1:12 pm
#87
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MAN/BHX
Programs: ABBA
Posts: 6,027
Is the 2-year-old-in-lap thing a CAA regulation or a BA internal rule?
Assuming the former, we have yet another BA safety cockup. Sure, the apologists will come along and say how it's BA's outsourced check-in team that cocked up. Just like they say it's BA's outsourced caterer that got the "needs improvement, poor hygiene" for the lounge.
However outsourcing is not a way to flush your responsibility away. Ryanair outsource their cabin crew to Slave-Driver inc, but if that firm doesn't provide fit cabin crew, ryanair are the ones to blame.
How can I, a BA Passenger, be assured that the person sitting next to me on my next flight from ALC will not have a 2 year old, (or a 3 year old, or perhaps a 20 year old), in their lap? BA obviously don't care, their continual lowest-bidder policy has led to this situation. What do the CAA do in cases like this, assuming they are made aware?
Obviously if you're evacuating a country, ala operation soloman, there's an exception to be made. If you're trying to get the bucket and spade brigade home while trying to avoid paying denied-boarding compensation, that's s different kettle of fish.
Sadly, BA staff* threaten to arrest their business class customers, don't close engine cowlings, allow 2 year olds as babes in arms, and don't wash their hands while serving in the lounge, and that's just in the last couple of months.
* (BA staff being defined as someone working on behalf of BA)
Assuming the former, we have yet another BA safety cockup. Sure, the apologists will come along and say how it's BA's outsourced check-in team that cocked up. Just like they say it's BA's outsourced caterer that got the "needs improvement, poor hygiene" for the lounge.
However outsourcing is not a way to flush your responsibility away. Ryanair outsource their cabin crew to Slave-Driver inc, but if that firm doesn't provide fit cabin crew, ryanair are the ones to blame.
How can I, a BA Passenger, be assured that the person sitting next to me on my next flight from ALC will not have a 2 year old, (or a 3 year old, or perhaps a 20 year old), in their lap? BA obviously don't care, their continual lowest-bidder policy has led to this situation. What do the CAA do in cases like this, assuming they are made aware?
Obviously if you're evacuating a country, ala operation soloman, there's an exception to be made. If you're trying to get the bucket and spade brigade home while trying to avoid paying denied-boarding compensation, that's s different kettle of fish.
Sadly, BA staff* threaten to arrest their business class customers, don't close engine cowlings, allow 2 year olds as babes in arms, and don't wash their hands while serving in the lounge, and that's just in the last couple of months.
* (BA staff being defined as someone working on behalf of BA)
Sep 23, 2013, 2:09 pm
#88
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cambridge, England
Programs: BA, VS, Le Club Accor Gold
Posts: 1,208
Is the 2-year-old-in-lap thing a CAA regulation or a BA internal rule?
Assuming the former, we have yet another BA safety cockup. Sure, the apologists will come along and say how it's BA's outsourced check-in team that cocked up. Just like they say it's BA's outsourced caterer that got the "needs improvement, poor hygiene" for the lounge.
However outsourcing is not a way to flush your responsibility away. Ryanair outsource their cabin crew to Slave-Driver inc, but if that firm doesn't provide fit cabin crew, ryanair are the ones to blame.
How can I, a BA Passenger, be assured that the person sitting next to me on my next flight from ALC will not have a 2 year old, (or a 3 year old, or perhaps a 20 year old), in their lap? BA obviously don't care, their continual lowest-bidder policy has led to this situation. What do the CAA do in cases like this, assuming they are made aware?
Obviously if you're evacuating a country, ala operation soloman, there's an exception to be made. If you're trying to get the bucket and spade brigade home while trying to avoid paying denied-boarding compensation, that's s different kettle of fish.
Sadly, BA staff* threaten to arrest their business class customers, don't close engine cowlings, allow 2 year olds as babes in arms, and don't wash their hands while serving in the lounge, and that's just in the last couple of months.
* (BA staff being defined as someone working on behalf of BA)
Assuming the former, we have yet another BA safety cockup. Sure, the apologists will come along and say how it's BA's outsourced check-in team that cocked up. Just like they say it's BA's outsourced caterer that got the "needs improvement, poor hygiene" for the lounge.
However outsourcing is not a way to flush your responsibility away. Ryanair outsource their cabin crew to Slave-Driver inc, but if that firm doesn't provide fit cabin crew, ryanair are the ones to blame.
How can I, a BA Passenger, be assured that the person sitting next to me on my next flight from ALC will not have a 2 year old, (or a 3 year old, or perhaps a 20 year old), in their lap? BA obviously don't care, their continual lowest-bidder policy has led to this situation. What do the CAA do in cases like this, assuming they are made aware?
Obviously if you're evacuating a country, ala operation soloman, there's an exception to be made. If you're trying to get the bucket and spade brigade home while trying to avoid paying denied-boarding compensation, that's s different kettle of fish.
Sadly, BA staff* threaten to arrest their business class customers, don't close engine cowlings, allow 2 year olds as babes in arms, and don't wash their hands while serving in the lounge, and that's just in the last couple of months.
* (BA staff being defined as someone working on behalf of BA)