LTN Phobia

I don't often agree with Dave Noble but I'm very much with him on this one in terms of complaints.

However, I would not feel I have the right to complain if I knowingly did wrong myself, but I would also feel that BA need to know about this - in fact BA could even have a right to complain to me that I knowingly made them break the law and fair enough if they did! But the need for BA to be informed of what happened so that they can take a corrective action is not negated by the fact that someone knowingly contributed to the wrong thing occurring.

So, what I would do in the OP's position is that I would send BA a note, make it clear that it's not a complaint per se, completely own up to what I knew and did, and let them know what happened and ask them to perhaps improve the compliance by their agent(s), and certainly not as a complaint.

Dave Noble

If the person felt that there was justification to inform BA, the time to do it was before the flight when it could be addressed

lorcancoyle

And at that time the BA agent had been told - they just were either uninformed of rules or chose to ignore them. OP thus had choice between flying as he did or being offloaded, his choice does not justify the agents actions and mean BA shouldn't be notified so agent can be retrained... (Though does mean any moral right to compensation is reduced to zero or close to it - 30% downgrade compensation on a 10% ticket is pretty minimal anyway!)

To reference the other hot BaxterStorey thread, should we only complain at the time we're in lounge, and not subsequently?

Silver Fox

I'd just like to say that I did have my cake this morning, and ate it.

Bullswood

My reading is that the OP did advise BA (or their appointed local rep) and that the instruction given was to sit the child on a lap. Yes, he did ask for advice on Flyertalk but again the judgement of BA's appointed representative surely trumps advice gleaned on a chat forum. I don't for one minute believe (and nor do I think the CAA would be unduly concerned on a one-off basis) that a child 48hrs past a second birthday constitutes a material safety issue in terms of the extra body mass, however what does concern me is that BA's system for allocating an extra seat under its own procedures doesn't seem to always work very well and that this type of "solution" by outstations (where the problem,by definition, will most likely occur) may be a more common occurrence which BA need to address. In fairness, BA should be told.

PUCCI GALORE

In my nightclub bouncer days long after you were born, we used to tell them to "Sling Their hook".

Anyhow now we know. My own view is that the Ground Staff deliberately flouted the rules and BA should be told. It was not up to you to tell the crew who will have assumed that this would have been verified on the ground. Very bad all round IMUO.

Dave Noble

If the passenger had no knowledge, then would have no reason to contact BA after the event

Since the passenger had solicited advice, at that point he became complicit in the event since, despite being advised to query the situation with the crew, chose to keep quiet and potentially create a safety risk ( if it is not permitted for a 2yo to travel on lap )

To then contact BA about "retraining" is hypocritical imo

Bullswood

The passenger's reason for contacting BA after the event is that the "event" was caused by BA not providing the seat for his child that was required and booked! By the way, I received profuse apologies from BA when it happened to me.

lorcancoyle

Somewhat hypocritical, yes, but no negatives should arise from that - BA won't ban him unless he expresses himself poorly in letter.

Upsides - it shouldn't happen to pax in ALC again, or, if Bullswood's theory is correct then BA's systems may get improved to address issue (at some stage...)

ACARS

I would suggest the OP searches and fills in this form https://www.caa.co.uk/application.as...e=form&id=5080

The address to send it to can be found here
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...76&pagetype=90

Sent BA a copy after you have sent it. That should guarantee a response, especially if BA are in breach of their own CAA approved operations manuals.

Disco Volante

The need to report this breach of a rule doesn't depend on whether the OP agreed to go along with it or not. Aviation is highly regulated for obvious reasons. One of BAs employees/agents has decided they will break those rules where it suits them. This may not have been a dangerous breach, but what other rules will they breach?

I am surprised to see FT'ers suggesting the OP is at fault here. The airline put pressure on him to do this and left him with little alternative bearing in mind he was travelling with a two year old. He hasn't done anything wrong at all.

He should tell BA what happened, that he was told he had to travel with the child on his lap or he would be offloaded, and let BA deal with this.

Disco Volante

I agree with PG.

Bullswood

DV - Totally agree with you & PG. It would be tragic if some of the wilder comments above caused the OP not to advise BA of what has happened. The OP took all reasonable steps to advise BA of the age of his child and make the relevant arrangements, and a representative of BA, not for the first time, incorrectly dealt with a subsequent BA administrative error and caused the aircraft Commander to breach his or her responsibilities under Section 60 of the Air Navigation Order.

IAN-UK

I don't think there's much need for hand wringing on this one. My understanding is that the OP bought three seats but was given only two. Surely reason enough for a complaint.

GUWonder

For this roundtrip ticketed PNR, the U2-to-2 year old travels internationally on a paid ticket available directly to the public. That it is a reduced fare is not a legal exemption from 261/2004.

What I would do in the OP's situation would have been to try to prevent this situation in the first place by making sure there is a ticket number in the PNRs. Infant ticket bookings are too often messed up by airlines and require additional time and attention to minimize day of departure hassles. Unfortunately these are things learned mostly after being hit by a problem of this sort.



The OP informed BA.

BA is responsible for violations of BA policy, even when the violation is the result of actions by a contracted agent.

There is no getting around the fact that it seems like BA messed up here in more than one way. Blaming the passengers for being put in this pickle of a situation by BA is rather amusing, to put it kindly.