lorcancoyle

EU 261 - a seat has been booked for pax, BA not giving pax a seat...

Tobias-UK

Where is the 'denied boarding' or 'downgrade' as defined by the Regulation?

Bullswood

Given that this is an inbound sector and child's second birthday only a few days ago, I wonder if this is a consequence of BA's generous but unusual/little known policy of giving a FOC separate seat on return if baby's second birthday falls between outward & return sectors?
We had a similar experience a couple of years ago ex BKK; infant was on our PNR (& lap) outbound but for return, which would be after turning 2, he was given a separate PNR with promise of a seat at no extra charge. On check-in at BKK, staff advised no seat as no ticket number shown in baby's PNR and would have to sit on lap even though over 2 years old. Qantas (representing BA there at the time) advised no knowledge of any such generous BA policy and that we'd have to buy a seat or go for the lap option. Amazingly the BA station manager also claimed no knowledge of the policy and it took a call from me to BA UK reservations to resolve. As I say, policy is generous but seems to have weaknesses including lack of education of staff & handling agents (particularly since most other airlines just charge for a seat on any sector after 2nd b/day, even if it's mid-trip).

lorcancoyle

You are taking the p1ss, right? A passenger has a ticket that entitles them to a seat and is told to either not take the flight, or take flight but not get a seat - how is that not a downgrade (BA has a very distinct pricing structure for infants who don't require seats in the first place). The regulation doesn't cover in excruciating detail all potential situations, that's where the various appeal mechanisms come in where judgement and interpretation come into play, eg Sturgeon on extended delays being equivalent to cancellation for compensation purposes

You're not a Ryanair luggage size checker by any chance?

Bullswood

lorcancoyle: You're assuming the passenger was charged for a separate seat...see my comment above.

Tobias-UK

No. I am a commercial barrister with over 20 years call with clients that include 5 major airlines. What about you?

Is there really any need for the insults? (Not that there is anything wrong in being a Ryanair luggage size checker)

neuromancer

When I did the same (FT is an amazing source of info ) there was no ticket number for baby's reservation too, so we were issued a ticket at the desk at the airport.

NeverFirst

Wouldn't a lap-child over two years of age be allowed under EU-OPS?

I think it's not allowed, and if it ever happened BA could be in trouble with the CAA. I may be mistaken though.

Bullswood

Neuromancer: Yes, it seems the procedure is well intentioned but a bit hit & miss in its delivery. We were unfortunate enough to be dealing with uninformed staff at an outstation & ended up having to call London from a nearby payphone (BA BKK airport manager refused to check with them herself). Even then, QF charged me $35 for ticket issue...

lorcancoyle

OP said the child had been offloaded, if no expectation of seat then he presumably wouldn't have been offloaded as they would still have been working on basis of being seated on lap and would have been on same PNR. So think different to your situation (though possibly symptomatic of same issue)

On the strict interpretation of EU261 if no compensation due, then below would presumably be a straightforward UK claim (depending on the in depth Ts&Cs) as you have bought a ticket including a seat and your child has not been provided with one (I would really love to see BA opinion from a QC justifying same class of service - they do it on CE/CW after all - has the potential to be either remarkably good or remarkably bad)

From BA.com:

You must always have a ticket for your infant's journey.

Children: 2 - 11 years


Infants who become children while travelling

If you're travelling with an infant who reaches the age of two during their journey, your child will need their own seat for any flights on and after their 2nd birthday. However, there is no charge for this; you will still only pay the infant fare for the entire journey.

As your infant will only be required to have a seat for part of your trip, this can't be booked online, so contact us and we'll be pleased to help you.

lorcancoyle

My smiley went missing (found it )

I just can't see how, without remarkable gymnastic, acrobatic and yogic feats that result in an Escher-like outcome, an infant/child fare which includes a seat for one leg can be amended to an infant/infant fare without a seat and not be classed as a downgrade when BA defines them as different levels of service. (Even though they cost the same)

Bullswood

I'd be interested to know whether the child was actually an overbooking offload (which would beggar belief) or whether his/her booking had simply been cancelled because of the same admin foul-up as I & Neuromancer refer to above. In our case, because the original res agent had apparently forgotten to put a ticket number in the child's separate PNR for the complimentary return seat on the sector back to the UK (despite having given us the allocated seat numbers for the whole party of 2 + 1), the system picked up this omission and unbeknown to us, automatically cancelled the child's booking a few days before the flight departure.

Dave Noble

EU261 doesn't apply to a free ticket anyway

3. This Regulation shall not apply to passengers travelling
free of charge or at a reduced fare not available directly or
indirectly to the public.

lorcancoyle

Ticket still paid for, and widely available to public - AIUI the above applies to things like staff discounted tickets, genuinely free tickets etc.

Dave Noble

Um. the infant becoming child ticket is not charged for by BA iirc => a genuinely free ticket and so not covered

It is not the same as a redemption ticket which is specifically covered