Yet to be announced Exec Club changes: your fears, conjecture and general grousing
Sep 2, 2011, 10:13 am
#211
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: FL
Programs: AAdvantage Elite Plat, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Hertz Gold, BA
Posts: 498
I think this is all speculation and subject to change anyway. Indeed BA is joing Iberia and the awards will probably be more standard with OW alliance.
This I can think: Too many unredeemed miles and fewer planes at much higher capacity.
We know AA and UA/CO already sent some changes to the Elite programs and MM lifetime. I am afraid there is more to come.
That is why I have some reservations regarding the US Airways miles bonus plus GS Those may be devalued as well.
Feel really sorry for those who converted MR.. to BA....
This I can think: Too many unredeemed miles and fewer planes at much higher capacity.
We know AA and UA/CO already sent some changes to the Elite programs and MM lifetime. I am afraid there is more to come.
That is why I have some reservations regarding the US Airways miles bonus plus GS Those may be devalued as well.
Feel really sorry for those who converted MR.. to BA....
Sep 2, 2011, 10:14 am
#212
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 9
It's been said more than once in this thread, but, I'm also going to add my voice to the BA members that reside in North America.
Until the Partner redemption charts are published by BA, many of us North American BAEC members will continue to be anxious. I like some others have over 1M BA points in a household account. Because of the huge taxes/fuel surcharges associated with BA metal flights over the past few years, I've been flying with BA partners such as CX or AA to avoid having to pay those hefty extra fees. For our family, for every 1 BA flight, we travel with a BA partner 3 times. We use BA miles primarily for recreational travel, so, changing destinations to the Far East, South America, or Continental USA is a no brainer if we want to save funds by not taking a BA flight.
For those that are calling us 'NA whiners', we're voicing our concerns because it's entirely possible that due to the way we fly (ie. using BA partners) effectively our BA miles could become devalued come Nov/15.
If partner airlines travel require significantly more Avios points for travel come Nov/2011, then as someone else had mentioned previously, BA should think twice about grandfathering BA mile points using the old redemption charts.
Until the Partner redemption charts are published by BA, many of us North American BAEC members will continue to be anxious. I like some others have over 1M BA points in a household account. Because of the huge taxes/fuel surcharges associated with BA metal flights over the past few years, I've been flying with BA partners such as CX or AA to avoid having to pay those hefty extra fees. For our family, for every 1 BA flight, we travel with a BA partner 3 times. We use BA miles primarily for recreational travel, so, changing destinations to the Far East, South America, or Continental USA is a no brainer if we want to save funds by not taking a BA flight.
For those that are calling us 'NA whiners', we're voicing our concerns because it's entirely possible that due to the way we fly (ie. using BA partners) effectively our BA miles could become devalued come Nov/15.
If partner airlines travel require significantly more Avios points for travel come Nov/2011, then as someone else had mentioned previously, BA should think twice about grandfathering BA mile points using the old redemption charts.
Sep 2, 2011, 10:18 am
#213
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC (Gold), Hilton (Gold)
Posts: 4,168
It's been said more than once in this thread, but, I'm also going to add my voice to the BA members that reside in North America.
Until the Partner redemption charts are published by BA, many of us North American BAEC members will continue to be anxious. I like some others have over 1M BA points in a household account. Because of the huge taxes/fuel surcharges associated with BA metal flights over the past few years, I've been flying with BA partners such as CX or AA to avoid having to pay those hefty extra fees. For our family, for every 1 BA flight, we travel with a BA partner 3 times. We use BA miles primarily for recreational travel, so, changing destinations to the Far East, South America, or Continental USA is a no brainer if we want to save funds by not taking a BA flight.
For those that are calling us 'NA whiners', we're voicing our concerns because it's entirely possible that due to the way we fly (ie. using BA partners) effectively our BA miles could become devalued come Nov/15.
If partner airlines travel require significantly more Avios points for travel come Nov/2011, then as someone else had mentioned previously, BA should think twice about grandfathering BA mile points using the old redemption charts.
Until the Partner redemption charts are published by BA, many of us North American BAEC members will continue to be anxious. I like some others have over 1M BA points in a household account. Because of the huge taxes/fuel surcharges associated with BA metal flights over the past few years, I've been flying with BA partners such as CX or AA to avoid having to pay those hefty extra fees. For our family, for every 1 BA flight, we travel with a BA partner 3 times. We use BA miles primarily for recreational travel, so, changing destinations to the Far East, South America, or Continental USA is a no brainer if we want to save funds by not taking a BA flight.
For those that are calling us 'NA whiners', we're voicing our concerns because it's entirely possible that due to the way we fly (ie. using BA partners) effectively our BA miles could become devalued come Nov/15.
If partner airlines travel require significantly more Avios points for travel come Nov/2011, then as someone else had mentioned previously, BA should think twice about grandfathering BA mile points using the old redemption charts.
I can understand you being anxious - but you must remember that your compatriots claims of suddenly needing 20 zillion Avios points to travel from New York to Boston in the luggage hold are nothing more than speculation (and irritation for that matter).
If you're sitting on a 'stash' of miles and you are concerned that your planned redemptions are going to become more expensive, you have 2 months to get your redemptions in at current rates. Remember that miles bookings are fully flexible so if the rates change in your favour in November you could consider cancelling and rebooking for a small fee.
Anxious is fine - and totally understandable ! ^
BAH
Sep 2, 2011, 10:31 am
#214
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,157
OK - for once a reasonable post.
I can understand you being anxious - but you must remember that your compatriots claims of suddenly needing 20 zillion Avios points to travel from New York to Boston in the luggage hold are nothing more than speculation (and irritation for that matter).
I can understand you being anxious - but you must remember that your compatriots claims of suddenly needing 20 zillion Avios points to travel from New York to Boston in the luggage hold are nothing more than speculation (and irritation for that matter).
However, a further revelation of how many people seem to join BAEC and yet avoid flying on BA. I know there's a oneworld thing, but seen from BA's POV it must be just a little bit frustrating seeing all these NA members never putting their bums on a BA seat. It's supposed to be a Frequent Flyer Programme.
Personally, I don't care. I'm time-rich, cash-rich and Miles-rich. And the taxes and fees that cause so much angst 'over there' don't bother me in the slightest. We just carry on flying Club on a 4-sector trip to the US East Coast in CE/CW for around $1,000 US each [$200 each more on a bad day]. I certainly don't expect BA to consider reducing that cost to $500 pp ... they would go bust.
Sep 2, 2011, 10:33 am
#215
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 40,233
It has been particularly galling to read how some N American members have been able to redeem on some great routes at considerable less cost than it has been for European and especially UK based members so I doubt that there is going to be much sympathy for you lot if, and it's a big if....the cost of redeeming is raised in miles or cash terms. Let's face it most of the ones that have been doing the moaning are not really BA flyers anyway.
Sep 2, 2011, 10:51 am
#216
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
Posts: 15,765
However, a further revelation of how many people seem to join BAEC and yet avoid flying on BA. I know there's a oneworld thing, but seen from BA's POV it must be just a little bit frustrating seeing all these NA members never putting their bums on a BA seat. It's supposed to be a Frequent Flyer Programme.
Personally, I don't care. I'm time-rich, cash-rich and Miles-rich. And the taxes and fees that cause so much angst 'over there' don't bother me in the slightest. We just carry on flying Club on a 4-sector trip to the US East Coast in CE/CW for around $1,000 US each [$200 each more on a bad day]. I certainly don't expect BA to consider reducing that cost to $500 pp ... they would go bust.
Personally, I don't care. I'm time-rich, cash-rich and Miles-rich. And the taxes and fees that cause so much angst 'over there' don't bother me in the slightest. We just carry on flying Club on a 4-sector trip to the US East Coast in CE/CW for around $1,000 US each [$200 each more on a bad day]. I certainly don't expect BA to consider reducing that cost to $500 pp ... they would go bust.
This is a direct result of BA's decision to sell miles to Chase and Chase's decision to offer massive 100k signup bonuses. Prior to that time, many of us didn't have BA accounts and would likely have credited any BA flights to our AA accounts (as AA has no surcharges and AA elite benefits are likely more useful to US-based flyers).
It is further a result of BAs use of absurd "fuel surcharges" to gouge customers using their miles, as well as the heinous London "taxes" on premium cabin travel. These are concepts that are mostly unknown in the US where you only pay relatively low federally mandated taxes and fees on award tickets (usually about $10 on my southwest roundtrips, and maybe +$70 on an international ticket).
Consumers are not stupid. When they can redeem fewer miles and spend few $$ for award seats on partners they are going to bypass BA. In the same way that UA customers use partners to bypass UA's mediocre premium product.
So while you don't care, the massive devaluation is a big deal to us yanks. I am just thankful that I recently zeroed out my BA account. And in December I will cancel my Chase card and let them know exactly why I am doing it.
FF programs stopped being a reward to frequent travelers a long time ago, when the airlines realized that they could turn the programmes into a profit center by selling miles. Get over it.
Sep 2, 2011, 11:03 am
#217
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,464
It is further a result of BAs use of absurd "fuel surcharges" to gouge customers using their miles, as well as the heinous London "taxes" on premium cabin travel. These are concepts that are mostly unknown in the US where you only pay relatively low federally mandated taxes and fees on award tickets (usually about $10 on my southwest roundtrips, and maybe +$70 on an international ticket).
Sep 2, 2011, 11:03 am
#218
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,157
Regarding North American flyers who don't fly BA:
This is a direct result of BA's decision to sell miles to Chase and Chase's decision to offer massive 100k signup bonuses. Prior to that time, many of us didn't have BA accounts and would likely have credited any BA flights to our AA accounts (as AA has no surcharges and AA elite benefits are likely more useful to US-based flyers). Fair enough, although of course you weren't forced to sign up, were you.
It is further a result of BAs use of absurd "fuel surcharges" to gouge customers using their miles, as well as the heinous London "taxes" on premium cabin travel. These are concepts that are mostly unknown in the US where you only pay relatively low federally mandated taxes and fees on award tickets (usually about $10 on my southwest roundtrips, and maybe +$70 on an international ticket). Yes, BA operates on a different Continent, in a completely different competitive and aviation environment. That's the way it is in UK. In the US I drive on the right.
Consumers are not stupid. When they can redeem fewer miles and spend few $$ for award seats on partners they are going to bypass BA. In the same way that UA customers use partners to bypass UA's mediocre premium product. That's fine. You have a choice.
So while you don't care, the massive devaluation is a big deal to us yanks. I am just thankful that I recently zeroed out my BA account. And in December I will cancel my Chase card and let them know exactly why I am doing it. Again, your choice. BAEC is clearly not the right product for you. But please don't blame BA for not delivering a US-style rewards program.
FF programs stopped being a reward to frequent travelers a long time ago, when the airlines realized that they could turn the programmes into a profit center by selling miles. Get over it. That's one way of looking at it. Personally we don't buy miles ... we buy BA air tickets. And spend a lot of money in the USA on our Amex
This is a direct result of BA's decision to sell miles to Chase and Chase's decision to offer massive 100k signup bonuses. Prior to that time, many of us didn't have BA accounts and would likely have credited any BA flights to our AA accounts (as AA has no surcharges and AA elite benefits are likely more useful to US-based flyers). Fair enough, although of course you weren't forced to sign up, were you.
It is further a result of BAs use of absurd "fuel surcharges" to gouge customers using their miles, as well as the heinous London "taxes" on premium cabin travel. These are concepts that are mostly unknown in the US where you only pay relatively low federally mandated taxes and fees on award tickets (usually about $10 on my southwest roundtrips, and maybe +$70 on an international ticket). Yes, BA operates on a different Continent, in a completely different competitive and aviation environment. That's the way it is in UK. In the US I drive on the right.
Consumers are not stupid. When they can redeem fewer miles and spend few $$ for award seats on partners they are going to bypass BA. In the same way that UA customers use partners to bypass UA's mediocre premium product. That's fine. You have a choice.
So while you don't care, the massive devaluation is a big deal to us yanks. I am just thankful that I recently zeroed out my BA account. And in December I will cancel my Chase card and let them know exactly why I am doing it. Again, your choice. BAEC is clearly not the right product for you. But please don't blame BA for not delivering a US-style rewards program.
FF programs stopped being a reward to frequent travelers a long time ago, when the airlines realized that they could turn the programmes into a profit center by selling miles. Get over it. That's one way of looking at it. Personally we don't buy miles ... we buy BA air tickets. And spend a lot of money in the USA on our Amex
Sep 2, 2011, 11:08 am
#219
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: AA LT PLT 3 MM+, BA (very) Blue, CO nobody
Posts: 2,640
Sep 2, 2011, 11:16 am
#220
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: BAEC Silver, AA Platinum, Amex Platinum, SPG Amex
Posts: 174
One of the most accurate statements in this entire thread (aside from Nicci), in my opinion, and one that certainly applies to the BAEC.
Sep 2, 2011, 11:24 am
#221
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SE1, London
Posts: 23,503
Those who have been around a few years will recall the last round of changes that affected US members (2004 iirc). At the time we had a minor insurrection, promises it would bring BA to its knees etc. etc. As we all know, this didn't quite work out. Sometimes people can attribute too much significance to an FFP.....just sayin'
Sep 2, 2011, 11:25 am
#222
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 7
To be fair it is British Airways and therefore designed around UK and European members firstly.
It has been particularly galling to read how some N American members have been able to redeem on some great routes at considerable less cost than it has been for European and especially UK based members so I doubt that there is going to be much sympathy for you lot if, and it's a big if....the cost of redeeming is raised in miles or cash terms. Let's face it most of the ones that have been doing the moaning are not really BA flyers anyway.
It has been particularly galling to read how some N American members have been able to redeem on some great routes at considerable less cost than it has been for European and especially UK based members so I doubt that there is going to be much sympathy for you lot if, and it's a big if....the cost of redeeming is raised in miles or cash terms. Let's face it most of the ones that have been doing the moaning are not really BA flyers anyway.
Last edited by sjaxrules; Sep 2, 2011 at 11:36 am
Sep 2, 2011, 11:30 am
#223
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,623
There are a number of axes of competition: ability to accrue miles, value and availability of award trips, value and availability of upgrades, ease of achieving the two elite levels, quality of care and service associated with the two elite levels, etc. Right now, it seems that BA has slightly improved points 2 for most members, and poiont 3 for UK travellers and those flying into the UK. If they could strengthen one or two of the other elements they would probably become the most attractive FF programme in Europe at the moment.
Sep 2, 2011, 11:31 am
#224
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: MUCCI
Posts: 1,927
Sorry - I just don't get it.....
BAEC is designed for those of us who use BA both for flying and redeeming. I find it quite good value. I would hate it to go the way of the USA frequent flyer programs. SWU's - thank god BA does not have them in the same way and the regular upgrading where it is not necessary into premium cabins - would discourage me from flying an airline hence why I like BA.
That they are going to discourage you from redeeming on other airlines is no real surprise is it....... Just looks like common business sense.
Glad to see so many of you leaving BAEC - means the rewards seat availability will get better for those of us who stay.....
FD.
BAEC is designed for those of us who use BA both for flying and redeeming. I find it quite good value. I would hate it to go the way of the USA frequent flyer programs. SWU's - thank god BA does not have them in the same way and the regular upgrading where it is not necessary into premium cabins - would discourage me from flying an airline hence why I like BA.
That they are going to discourage you from redeeming on other airlines is no real surprise is it....... Just looks like common business sense.
Glad to see so many of you leaving BAEC - means the rewards seat availability will get better for those of us who stay.....
FD.
Sep 2, 2011, 11:32 am
#225
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: MUCCI
Posts: 1,927
Not seeming harsh I think that you will find BA does not really care that much.
FD.
FD.
Hi, You make good points However, to be fair also that if BA is going to be UK/Europe centric, they should not have lure US based customer, take millions from US based CC companies to promote their program under false pretenses only to pull the rug out a couple later. The US customers have every right to be upset and I think this is an issue that will not go away.