Strike ballot called: here we go [General discussion of BA industrial relations]
Nov 2, 2009, 1:09 am
#106
Ambassador: Oneworld Alliance
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It is tough when there are so many great crew, whether posting on this board or serving us in the air and on the ground. But it does amaze me that apparently sane, intelligent individuals are led by the nose to the edge of destruction by trades unions. Just look at the posties; generally liked and held in high regard but acting like turkeys voting for Christmas. Surely the unions have had their day in the modern UK?
Nov 2, 2009, 1:14 am
#107
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Brighton England
Programs: AA Plat, various hotels
Posts: 1,220
I wonder if the OP has just listened to O'Liary giving WW the benefit of his advice on the BBC this morning.
His most constructive suggestion is for BA staff to buy their own food.
The comment about attractive staff is utterly irrelevant.
Many of us have suffered during the recession, i'm lucky that i'm still employed and have had a pay freeze for the last 18 months. Perks have also been reduced or eliminated.
I find it hard to believe that the BA staff wouldnt be preared to accept some pain to keep their job, i guess its all a matter of degree and as usual the union is putting its foot down.
His most constructive suggestion is for BA staff to buy their own food.
The comment about attractive staff is utterly irrelevant.
Many of us have suffered during the recession, i'm lucky that i'm still employed and have had a pay freeze for the last 18 months. Perks have also been reduced or eliminated.
I find it hard to believe that the BA staff wouldnt be preared to accept some pain to keep their job, i guess its all a matter of degree and as usual the union is putting its foot down.
Nov 2, 2009, 1:26 am
#108
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: BA - Blue > Bronze > Silver > Bronze > Blue
Posts: 6,812
Subjective.
I believe it's the opposite - BA crew realise how good their terms are, and therefore will fight tooth and nail to keep them.
It doesn't help that old-contract crew (and a lot of crew that have been working 7+ years) would face a shocking drop in salary and lifestyle/days off/annual leave if they had to leave and find a 'regular' job; many don't have the qualifications or are too old to find anything that could begin to match the generous terms they currently enjoy; mortages and lifestyles have been built around current terms and pay ... so it's not surprising crew who see their job as a career are concerned.
Although the company would argue that no one's pay will be affected, the reality is that any future promotions/fleet transfers will be dependent on signing new contracts; any future workforce will work to market rate pay + 10%, and the fear is that eventually, all work/routes will be transferred to this new operation = current staff will be left with no work/no choice but to move to new fleet.
I can see both sides of the argument; those are the choices BA staff are being asked to make - change or move on.
Of course, this has been the reality at Gatwick for a couple of years now.
I believe it's the opposite - BA crew realise how good their terms are, and therefore will fight tooth and nail to keep them.
It doesn't help that old-contract crew (and a lot of crew that have been working 7+ years) would face a shocking drop in salary and lifestyle/days off/annual leave if they had to leave and find a 'regular' job; many don't have the qualifications or are too old to find anything that could begin to match the generous terms they currently enjoy; mortages and lifestyles have been built around current terms and pay ... so it's not surprising crew who see their job as a career are concerned.
Although the company would argue that no one's pay will be affected, the reality is that any future promotions/fleet transfers will be dependent on signing new contracts; any future workforce will work to market rate pay + 10%, and the fear is that eventually, all work/routes will be transferred to this new operation = current staff will be left with no work/no choice but to move to new fleet.
I can see both sides of the argument; those are the choices BA staff are being asked to make - change or move on.
Of course, this has been the reality at Gatwick for a couple of years now.
I can see that BA will struggle to compete with the current practices in place but at the same time completely understand why the crew do not want to give up what they have become accustomed to.
Hence strike, strife and more strife and a genuine chance of oblivion, that I think crew have to chance to uphold their standard of living.
Nov 2, 2009, 1:30 am
#109
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 22,213
We had three threads running concurrently relating to the threat of industrial actions. These have been now been merged together.
Prospero
Moderator: BAEC forum
Prospero
Moderator: BAEC forum
Nov 2, 2009, 1:31 am
#110
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: BA - Blue > Bronze > Silver > Bronze > Blue
Posts: 6,812
Personally I've never had a bad one, or any problems at all bar the wrong letter getting delivered and a forced trek to the post box to repost it, I really don't think they have a good reputation at all, in general any more.
Nov 2, 2009, 1:49 am
#111
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Nov 2, 2009, 2:25 am
#113
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC (Gold), Hilton (Gold)
Posts: 4,168
I also note that one of the things BA want to do is cut a member of cabin crew from longhaul flights. In case this need clarification that means a lowering of service levels on the flights for paying customers. It cannot mean anything else.
BAH
Nov 2, 2009, 2:39 am
#114
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: BA - Blue > Bronze > Silver > Bronze > Blue
Posts: 6,812
I can't remember a singly airline that has built itself around the attractiveness of its crew and its definitely not something that BA do. They may well perhaps use good looking actors in adverts, so do Tesco and I can't say that they have a significantly more attractive staff compliment than Sainsbury's or Asda!
Nov 2, 2009, 3:20 am
#115
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,065
I also note that one of the things BA want to do is cut a member of cabin crew from longhaul flights. In case this need clarification that means a lowering of service levels on the flights for paying customers. It cannot mean anything else.
Either way it is up to BA to determine the crewing levels and service that they wish to be delivered, the customers can then decide to travel with them or to move their business elsewhere. It is not the place of any union to dictate to their employer what service is to be delivered as has been the case in BA - hot towels in WT+ anyone?
Nov 2, 2009, 3:33 am
#117
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC (Gold), Hilton (Gold)
Posts: 4,168
Well maybe not. The CSD at the moment is not part of the service and floats - "managing" the service. The changes mean that one purser will come off the aircraft and the CSD will become part of the service. Now to many this will mean no change at all but to others it will mean the CSD getting out of the cubby hole, and doing something other than watching movies. Ultimately it is quite possible it will lead to a more consistent service.
I'm also curious as to how you know it's a PURSER that is being removed ? Inside information perhaps ? And only 4 posts to your name...
Either way it is up to BA to determine the crewing levels and service that they wish to be delivered, the customers can then decide to travel with them or to move their business elsewhere. It is not the place of any union to dictate to their employer what service is to be delivered as has been the case in BA - hot towels in WT+ anyone?
BAH
Nov 2, 2009, 3:35 am
#118
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Israel (some of the time)
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One recent example I would think was Hooters Air that oprerated between 2003 and 2006. Its quick demise may lead us to conclude that most people do not book their flights based indeed on the attractiveness of the cabin crew, but I have not really studied what actually caused them to go belly up.
Nov 2, 2009, 3:35 am
#119
Moderator: UK and Ireland & Europe
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Biggleswade
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This infographic gives an interesting perspective on the impact of staff cost saving on airline profitability:
No idea as to the quality of the source, though.
No idea as to the quality of the source, though.
