Strike ballot called: here we go [General discussion of BA industrial relations]
Oct 26, 2009, 1:52 pm
#62
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Just wait until the joint BASSA/CC89 meeting at Sandown Racecourse on 2 November.
I'm sure the TV camera crews will be invited. Just like they were when the last CC strike ballot was announced and like Unite did on 1 July to show that BA wasn't attending negotiations (when in fact it was because the 30 June deadline for negotiations has passed).
I'm sure the TV camera crews will be invited. Just like they were when the last CC strike ballot was announced and like Unite did on 1 July to show that BA wasn't attending negotiations (when in fact it was because the 30 June deadline for negotiations has passed).
Oct 26, 2009, 4:05 pm
#63
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well I would imagine a not insignificant % of crew have second jobs in hospitality (I know I regularly come across them) which will at least supplement incomes to some degree
Oct 26, 2009, 5:04 pm
#64
Join Date: Jun 2009
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I'm not a user of BA but since they have featured heavily in the news lately, I thought I would visit your forum to see your views.
I understand that the difficulties and challenges facing all airlines mean that BA have to cut costs and be as efficient as possible but I just can't help thinking that their strategy and method is flawed and counter-productive.
It is very easy for a struggling business to try to squeeze every drop out of their employees but to punish customer facing staff will reduce their morale which may lead to customer service standards falling to the low levels of a bus company. I don't know how much BA think they can save by cutting passenger benefits and staff salaries or how much revenue they can earn from fees on baggage, seat assignment and credit card payments but I am fairly sure that without the fiasco of Terminal 5 opening or fines from price-fixing convictions, BA would be paying bonuses to staff, dividends to shareholders and improving the customer experience. From what I can see, the knife should be used on management, not staff.
What is that old saying? Oh yes, penny wise, pound foolish.
I understand that the difficulties and challenges facing all airlines mean that BA have to cut costs and be as efficient as possible but I just can't help thinking that their strategy and method is flawed and counter-productive.
It is very easy for a struggling business to try to squeeze every drop out of their employees but to punish customer facing staff will reduce their morale which may lead to customer service standards falling to the low levels of a bus company. I don't know how much BA think they can save by cutting passenger benefits and staff salaries or how much revenue they can earn from fees on baggage, seat assignment and credit card payments but I am fairly sure that without the fiasco of Terminal 5 opening or fines from price-fixing convictions, BA would be paying bonuses to staff, dividends to shareholders and improving the customer experience. From what I can see, the knife should be used on management, not staff.
What is that old saying? Oh yes, penny wise, pound foolish.
Oct 26, 2009, 5:48 pm
#65
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I've never worked in a job that offered me union membership. I've certainly felt wronged at work, redundancy threats, pay freezes, changes in working hours with no additional pay etc. Last week I worked from 8am - 9pm every day (I'm paid for 9-5.30) and did not receive any overtime. On all of those occasions I've felt that there were good reasons for what I was doing or being asked to sacrifice. I'm well paid for the work that I do so when my company asks for something extra from me I'll oblige, for the sake of the company and therefore ultimately the welfare of myself and my colleagues. I have no option strike, if I don't like something I can change my job.
Why do others have this right, but not me, my colleagues or a huge proportion of workers in the UK? Why is it that people think that the answer to necessary change is action that will only harm a companies already poor position, ultimately increasinging the likelihood of the individual losing their job anyway?
Assuming that BA is acting in accordance with the law, then I don't understand how a strike is helpful to anyone in both the short and long term. Is striking simply a manifestation of resistance to change?
These are all questions that I don't have the answers to, but I'm very open to being convinced that a strike by BA CC is necessary and appropriate.
I don't understand this strike or the postal strike but I'd really like to.
Last edited by matthandy; Oct 26, 2009 at 5:51 pm Reason: Spelling
Oct 27, 2009, 3:03 am
#66
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http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/...h-1809932.html
Oct 27, 2009, 3:45 am
#67
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According to the independent, the vote will be a nailed on yes for striking, so it looks like it is going to occur-
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/...h-1809932.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/...h-1809932.html
Mr Walsh is well aware that the cabin crew costs for BA are about twice those for Sir Richard Branson's airline on the routes where they compete. It is said that a BA cabin crew member rostered to fly Heathrow-Tokyo and back will earn, in allowances alone, more from that trip than the average Ryanair flight attendant earns in a month.
Oct 27, 2009, 4:30 am
#68
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You do know that if there isn't a recognised union at your place of work, you are completely entitled to seek out a union which is appropriate to your sector? I'm a union member, even though no-one at my current employer has ever mentioned unions to me... It's not your employer's job to find your union - it's yours. I've never worked in a job which offered me union membership - but I've always gone out and joined a union anyway. At one place, unions were recognised, at this one they are not. But I still like the fluffy duvet feel I have to knowing that I can call on the union legal support if things go badly...
Or you can find out which union would be happy to represent you and start a campaign to get your colleagues to join - your employer has to recognise the union if a sufficient number of employees vote in favour of them doing so. And how a union branch behaves is set by its members.
You do have this right. All workers in the UK (with the exception of the police and the military who may not strike) have this right. Your right to join a union and withold your labour when you consider that your employer is treating you unfairly was a right which people fought and were imprisoned for. You absolutely have this right which is enshrined in UK and EU law. Somewhere out there, there is a union which would be happy to have you as a member and represent you when you need it. And probably offer you cheaper car and travel insurance as well 
Anyway, back to BA. Just as you do, so do the BA crew have the right to unionise and withold labour if they feel sufficiently aggrieved by what management is doing to them. I'll defend the principle of workers being able to take industrial action even if I don't agree with them them on a particular instance (e.g. the firemen - they had the right to strike, even if they were greedy for doing so!).
But just once, it would be nice to see some creativity from the cabin crew unions. Industrial action doesn't have to be strikes - there's a whole plethora of other activities which would cause the company problems without the nuclear option of a strike. But BASSA seem to be one of the more dinosaur unions out there, so I suspect they'll believe they can force their own way by holding a gun to WW's head, while keeping their head firmly in the sand about the situation BA is in.
I've certainly felt wronged at work, redundancy threats, pay freezes, changes in working hours with no additional pay etc. Last week I worked from 8am - 9pm every day (I'm paid for 9-5.30) and did not receive any overtime. On all of those occasions I've felt that there were good reasons for what I was doing or being asked to sacrifice. I'm well paid for the work that I do so when my company asks for something extra from me I'll oblige, for the sake of the company and therefore ultimately the welfare of myself and my colleagues. I have no option strike, if I don't like something I can change my job.
Why do others have this right, but not me, my colleagues or a huge proportion of workers in the UK?
Anyway, back to BA. Just as you do, so do the BA crew have the right to unionise and withold labour if they feel sufficiently aggrieved by what management is doing to them. I'll defend the principle of workers being able to take industrial action even if I don't agree with them them on a particular instance (e.g. the firemen - they had the right to strike, even if they were greedy for doing so!).
But just once, it would be nice to see some creativity from the cabin crew unions. Industrial action doesn't have to be strikes - there's a whole plethora of other activities which would cause the company problems without the nuclear option of a strike. But BASSA seem to be one of the more dinosaur unions out there, so I suspect they'll believe they can force their own way by holding a gun to WW's head, while keeping their head firmly in the sand about the situation BA is in.
Oct 27, 2009, 4:43 am
#69
Join Date: May 2006
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You wonder if the unions waited to release this the day after it was announced the planned IB/AA merger was under intensified scrutiny?
Is their main goal to destroy BA?
Ah wait, they are unions... lets protect the individual at any price, even if it means all of his/hers colleagues might be out of a job eventually.
Lets hope they show some common sense and don't schedule the strike for December and the holidays.
Is their main goal to destroy BA?
Ah wait, they are unions... lets protect the individual at any price, even if it means all of his/hers colleagues might be out of a job eventually.
Lets hope they show some common sense and don't schedule the strike for December and the holidays.
Oct 27, 2009, 5:12 am
#70
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But on the scale on which a strike might happen, rather than the odd plane load? would be difficult.
Oct 27, 2009, 6:18 am
#71
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BA has no hope as long as people are delusional!
Just reading the Have your say page on the BBC about the postal strikes and you guessed, a few clicks later and there was an anti BA message:
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/comp...20091027120225
ive only linked the "alert the moderator" page because thats the only way i could home in the exact message.
BA have got no chance as long as people are delusional and blindly against them. There is no need to slate them off when there is no reason to mention them in the conversation. Im sorry but the postal strike has nothing to do with the situation at BA. Posties have been on rolling weekly strikes for the last four months, I can not even remember when the last time BA crew went on strike!
and just to wind BA up, the person mentions how he is taking the bearded one to HKG!
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/comp...20091027120225
ive only linked the "alert the moderator" page because thats the only way i could home in the exact message.
BA have got no chance as long as people are delusional and blindly against them. There is no need to slate them off when there is no reason to mention them in the conversation. Im sorry but the postal strike has nothing to do with the situation at BA. Posties have been on rolling weekly strikes for the last four months, I can not even remember when the last time BA crew went on strike!
and just to wind BA up, the person mentions how he is taking the bearded one to HKG!
Oct 27, 2009, 7:11 am
#72
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Just recently (2009): LWO-VIE-TXL on OS clx in LWO due to "technical issues" and was rerouted LWO-KBP-MUC-TXL on PS/LH.
Oct 27, 2009, 8:45 am
#73
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May I be the first to wish you all a very happy Christmas and hope that, in the current financial climate, the BA employees think sensibly about their decision.
Oct 27, 2009, 12:03 pm
#74
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I'd just to say that I'm disappointed and to a certain extent mortified that a ballot has been announced. Childish behaviour from both sides, but especially from the unions in the last year or so has put us in a rather difficult predicament. I personally don't agree with striking, and will be voting against it. A lot of my colleagues at my base won't be striking either, by the looks of things.
Unfortunately, I feel the union has misrepresented us and in several ways they have lied as well. Therefore, I think management will take this to the courts and find a legal loophole.
As for a time scale, the unions announced it today, which means the ballot will go in the post next monday (7 days notice). Due to the trip structure of the flying programme, the minimum time the ballot can run for is 3 weeks. Bringing the postal strike issues into it, the ballot may run for 4 weeks. After that, if the result is in favour of a strike, the union will have to give the company 7 days notice of any action. The action must be within 28 days. This is as I understand it.
I'm really crossing my fingers on this one. Any industrial action could mean the beginning of the end of BA, and I would hate to see that happen. For the record, none of the CC live on the breadline due to pay. Yes, most of us aren't paid very much, but a heck of a lot of other people in the UK earn less and manage fine. The figures that have been bandied around in the media are an average worked out from all grades. Most CSDs are on 4 times my salary, as an example.
All I can say is that I'm sorry, and that I hope the strike is averted somehow.
Unfortunately, I feel the union has misrepresented us and in several ways they have lied as well. Therefore, I think management will take this to the courts and find a legal loophole.
As for a time scale, the unions announced it today, which means the ballot will go in the post next monday (7 days notice). Due to the trip structure of the flying programme, the minimum time the ballot can run for is 3 weeks. Bringing the postal strike issues into it, the ballot may run for 4 weeks. After that, if the result is in favour of a strike, the union will have to give the company 7 days notice of any action. The action must be within 28 days. This is as I understand it.
I'm really crossing my fingers on this one. Any industrial action could mean the beginning of the end of BA, and I would hate to see that happen. For the record, none of the CC live on the breadline due to pay. Yes, most of us aren't paid very much, but a heck of a lot of other people in the UK earn less and manage fine. The figures that have been bandied around in the media are an average worked out from all grades. Most CSDs are on 4 times my salary, as an example.
All I can say is that I'm sorry, and that I hope the strike is averted somehow.
I heard an industry commentator on the radio last week saying that BA had opened the books to the unions so they could see the true position of the company and that was why the pilots (BALPA) had opted to go the way they did.
Originally Posted by Telegraph.co.uk
"This is an unaccustomed position for a union to be in but we have pressure-tested the company's trading position and cost base and are satisfied that this step is necessary to help BA recover its position as one of the world's most successful airlines.
"Our members have backed that judgment and are leading the way in contributing to the turn-round plan. The package of measures will be implemented as soon as BA demonstrates delivery of the cost saving targets across the whole company."
"Our members have backed that judgment and are leading the way in contributing to the turn-round plan. The package of measures will be implemented as soon as BA demonstrates delivery of the cost saving targets across the whole company."
BA & the unions need to sort this out as BA cannot afford more bad publicity like this, it will affect bookings. Pax who cannot fly over Christmas if the strike happens then, will think seriously about another airline for future trips. They won't be able to fly to their detination this year because the flights will all be full (with the possible exception of the Y/W/C/J/F full fares which are very high at that time of year and few and far between). I know because I have been stuck somewhere in the caribbean just after new year looking at a weeks wait for seats to be available on any airline.
Given the obvious trouble the company is in, you might hope sense would prevail but don't hold your breath. In my previous employers just after we were takenover the new management made almost everyone anyone who was on a high wage for their job (i.e. had been there a long time) and had decent benefits redundant. Then those that were left had their duties increased to account for those of the people no longer employed, and then interns and work experience were given some of these duties as effectively unpaid employees. Now that's running your company cheaply!
On a personal note if the strikes do happen and I happen to get stuck in Canada (not the UK) then this may actually turn out to be slightly positive for me anyway. I'm hoping to meet a friend who will be there arriving just as I am due to leave, so an extra day or two would be great so that there is a greater chance of more overlap between our visits. (Sorry for being a little selfish there)
Oct 27, 2009, 1:11 pm
#75
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Oh you don't get me I'm part of the union
You don't get me I'm part of the union
You don't get me I'm part of the union
Till the day I die, till the day I die.