AMEX doing "mass" shutdowns.
Nov 5, 2019, 6:14 pm
#76
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AMEX could also (easily) view purchasing gift cards for reimbursement with their airline incidentals credits on the Plat/Gold to be gaming.
If AMEX were to instantly shut down the hundreds, if not thousands, of FTers who exploited that loophole for years I doubt we'd see some of these same self-righteous "that's what you get" responses. This forum would go into meltdown.
If AMEX were to instantly shut down the hundreds, if not thousands, of FTers who exploited that loophole for years I doubt we'd see some of these same self-righteous "that's what you get" responses. This forum would go into meltdown.
(and no, I am of course not claiming that I accidentally bought giftcards. And yes, there would be a meltdown, absolutely)
I suspect Amex ultimately isn’t just looking at one criteria when deciding to shut down an account.
Pigs, hogs...
Nov 5, 2019, 10:18 pm
#77
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But that's exactly what Amex could consider gaming. They want you to have a cap, but you're getting multiple cards to avoid their cap. I don't how this could be construed as not annoying Amex.
Nov 5, 2019, 10:28 pm
#78
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For example, if someone has 3 cards that have a $50k cap on whatever, and they spend $49.9k on the first card then sock drawer it, then spend $49.8k on the second card then sock drawer it, and then move on the third card, why would it not be obvious to Amex (once they notice that) that this is almost certainly "gaming" to overcome the cap?
So it may not be the pure fact that someone holds multiple cards, but the details of what they do with those multiple cards, that's responsible for so many people who got shutdown recently having had multiples of certain Amex cards. And/or it may be how they got those multiple cards, since all of those people also admitted to self-referrals. Could it be that Amex is most upset about self-referrals to get multiple cards, rather than just self-referrals in general? Or is Amex just upset that someone did both self-referrals and had multiple cards? No one that I've seen talking about their shutdown has yet detailed the relationship (if any) between their self-referrals and their multiple cards.
Last edited by sdsearch; Nov 5, 2019 at 10:35 pm
Nov 5, 2019, 11:42 pm
#79
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They may not "know" for a fact, but in general they can make a good guess given particular spends patterns on those cards (not necessarily your spend patterns, but some people's).
For example, if someone has 3 cards that have a $50k cap on whatever, and they spend $49.9k on the first card then sock drawer it, then spend $49.8k on the second card then sock drawer it, and then move on the third card, why would it not be obvious to Amex (once they notice that) that this is almost certainly "gaming" to overcome the cap?
So it may not be the pure fact that someone holds multiple cards, but the details of what they do with those multiple cards, that's responsible for so many people who got shutdown recently having had multiples of certain Amex cards. And/or it may be how they got those multiple cards, since all of those people also admitted to self-referrals. Could it be that Amex is most upset about self-referrals to get multiple cards, rather than just self-referrals in general? Or is Amex just upset that someone did both self-referrals and had multiple cards? No one that I've seen talking about their shutdown has yet detailed the relationship (if any) between their self-referrals and their multiple cards.
For example, if someone has 3 cards that have a $50k cap on whatever, and they spend $49.9k on the first card then sock drawer it, then spend $49.8k on the second card then sock drawer it, and then move on the third card, why would it not be obvious to Amex (once they notice that) that this is almost certainly "gaming" to overcome the cap?
So it may not be the pure fact that someone holds multiple cards, but the details of what they do with those multiple cards, that's responsible for so many people who got shutdown recently having had multiples of certain Amex cards. And/or it may be how they got those multiple cards, since all of those people also admitted to self-referrals. Could it be that Amex is most upset about self-referrals to get multiple cards, rather than just self-referrals in general? Or is Amex just upset that someone did both self-referrals and had multiple cards? No one that I've seen talking about their shutdown has yet detailed the relationship (if any) between their self-referrals and their multiple cards.
Nov 6, 2019, 1:59 am
#80
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In case you're unaware, AmEx closed that loophole, but did not shut down any customers for having used it. Perhaps the difference in attitude is due to the bank's heavy promotion of those benefits. So many of us feel entitled to get at least something out of it.
Nov 6, 2019, 7:00 am
#81
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Well, if actually faced with the question the easy response would be: my option is to continue to use American Express for these purchasing using multiple cards or once I max out the benefit on a single card move my purchases to another company. And if I’m going to move my purchases to another company maybe I should move all of my purchases that way.
Nov 6, 2019, 7:16 am
#82
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Buying Airline gift cards is a normal thing to do and isn't against the T&C. The only reason it was reimbursed was a flaw on the Amex side so nothing you can blame the customer for.
Nov 6, 2019, 7:18 am
#83
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Well, if actually faced with the question the easy response would be: my option is to continue to use American Express for these purchasing using multiple cards or once I max out the benefit on a single card move my purchases to another company. And if I’m going to move my purchases to another company maybe I should move all of my purchases that way.
Nov 6, 2019, 8:56 am
#84
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So in the Reddit thread, they updated the "survey" form and spreadsheet, including asking for those who input to verify their response in comments to weed out fakes and just as important, asking for DPs from those who did not (yet) get shut down despite having some potential factors. Here is the latest:
https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/co...heet/?sort=new
https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/co...heet/?sort=new
Basic data analysis
As of ~4:30 AM EST, the sheet had the following responses after deleting unverified responses:
77 verified responses total, of which 8 were shutdowns.
The relative risk factors were as follows:
MS: 50% shutdown, 52% non-shutdown
Self refer: 87% shutdown, 67% non-shutdown
Self refer clawback: 87% shutdown, 40% non-shutdown
Multiple Pay Over Time: 12% shutdown, 17% non-shutdown
FR: 25% shutdown, 13% non-shutdown
Multiple of same card: 62% shutdown, 35% non-shutdown
NAF Hilton: 25% shutdown, 17% non-shutdown
At this point, it seems likely that ~10% of the survey population received an Amex shutdown.
The major factors determining shutdown (statistically significant difference between two groups) are self refer clawback and multiple of same card. These are however neither necessary nor sufficient, and there may be mitigating factors which would preclude a shutdown (or perhaps they are planning another soon).
Factors that are unlikely to be related to the shutdown include MS, multiple POT, and NAF Hilton.
As of ~4:30 AM EST, the sheet had the following responses after deleting unverified responses:
77 verified responses total, of which 8 were shutdowns.
The relative risk factors were as follows:
MS: 50% shutdown, 52% non-shutdown
Self refer: 87% shutdown, 67% non-shutdown
Self refer clawback: 87% shutdown, 40% non-shutdown
Multiple Pay Over Time: 12% shutdown, 17% non-shutdown
FR: 25% shutdown, 13% non-shutdown
Multiple of same card: 62% shutdown, 35% non-shutdown
NAF Hilton: 25% shutdown, 17% non-shutdown
At this point, it seems likely that ~10% of the survey population received an Amex shutdown.
The major factors determining shutdown (statistically significant difference between two groups) are self refer clawback and multiple of same card. These are however neither necessary nor sufficient, and there may be mitigating factors which would preclude a shutdown (or perhaps they are planning another soon).
Factors that are unlikely to be related to the shutdown include MS, multiple POT, and NAF Hilton.
Nov 6, 2019, 9:54 am
#88
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Nov 6, 2019, 9:56 am
#89
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Nov 6, 2019, 10:00 am
#90
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The acronyms are kind of getting out of hand here. What is NAF (Hilton)? Never mind this should make the acronyms clearer (from the survey):
but, why would POT (pay over time) ever be a reason for Shutdown? Presumably Amex gets interest out of that.
Manufactured spending in bonus categories
Multiple pay-over-times
Self-referrals
Self-referrals clawed back
Financial reviewed
Reset spend limits (credit cycling)
Multiple of the same card (excluding plat flavors)
No AF Hilton Aspire
but, why would POT (pay over time) ever be a reason for Shutdown? Presumably Amex gets interest out of that.