ultrasoul

Has AMEX ever tried to work with partners to reverse airline mileage transfers that have already taken place?

Wondering if AMEX has had any reach in succeeding reversing those transfers as part of the #Amexclawbackgate.

Haven't gotten any clawbacks but I moved my whole MR back to SQ and AC when my dad's 100K got clawbacked- shame I didn't take the clawback issue more seriously and transferred to BA when the 40% bonus was still around.

Mountain Trader

No it isn't. The rule I think DHuey was referring to is that the party drafting the langauge or document in question is often prohibited from later claiming the it is ambiguous.

This could be in play as to the Platinum 100k card if Amex tries to say "What we meant by "same card" was all Platinum cards". For example, an American Express Platinum Card and a Platinum Card By Ameriprise are obviously different-just read their names and look at the benefits. If they are different, they can not be the same.

And the legal principle outlined by DHuey would prevent Amex from now claiming "What we meant to say was.....".

The prohibition on MSing for the minimum spend is pretty clear. These other avenues of attack by Amex seem poorly grounded.

mia

Agreed. American Express knows how to write terms which reference all Platinum charge cards. They have done it in other offers, but they did not in this instance.

dhuey

I hope Amex is paying attention to the recent Wells Fargo scandal. States are now boycotting Wells Fargo, and its CEO resigned.

I do not think that Amex has done anything close to the scale of what WF did, but it's getting increasingly difficult for me to accept an innocent explanation for how Amex lets applicants apply for a card via a bonus offer, and accept that application without ever telling the applicant that they are ineligible for the bonus. Much later, after the applicant has spend a bunch of money on the card, Amex points to a provision in the T&C. Not good.

Amex knows its applicants very well, as do all cc companies who extend credit to individuals. How could Amex possibly not know how an applicant already had a particular card in question, and is thus ineligible for the bonus offer? Yes, the applicant can see the provision in the T&C, but companies disregard those provisions frequently.

If anyone from Amex is watching this thread and wants to blow a whistle, now is your chance. It's so simple: if someone ineligible for a bonus applies for a card, tell them that before you accept their application.

Troopers

But, that person is applying for the card, not the bonus. Should Amex tell that person if s/he is eligible for the card before they accept their application for the card?

Troopers

Doesn't Chase and Citi state the same?

Amex makes a targeted offer for a credit/charge card, with benefits if cardholder meets certain criteria. The T&C defines the criteria. I'm note not sure how the terms are inconsistent.

I see similar promotions/offers for random stuff all the time; eg. offer valid one per household, limited to single use per person. Is it any different?

diseased

I had a point transfer reversed that was sent to the wrong Aeroplan account last year, but that was at my request.

dr0832

I applied for and got approved for this $100k plat offer for $3k in spend beginning of Aug. This was the first time having the card and I paid the $450 fee and didn't downgrade or do anything suspect like that. I met the spend through organic but also had to buy a legit gift card for my sisters wedding. I received the points after about 10 days on Aug 20 and then when I tried to transfer I got the dreaded message my account was under review. Since I still was in the 92 day window I added another $1200 spend organically so I technically I am over the $3000. I've called and got the run around from at least a dozen of Amex's foot soldiers. I am wondering if I should file a complaint with the CFPB or would it be better to wait 8 weeks from the day I got the points and then file? Or would I have to wait 8 weeks from the day the legitimate spend was done? Whats the odds they unfreeze? Any idea's are appreciated. I am thinking that fact that that froze them rather than claw them back is a positive but I am not holding my breath.

holyPockets

Applied 5/9. Met spend 100% organically and bonus awarded 6/22—but frozen. In June statement received notice of AF refund non-prorated beginning 9/1. Cancelled card on 7/17 after one last vain attempt to unfreeze points as I knew their plan was to stall until at least 9/1. 104,000 MR points immediately forfeited.

Last week I received the famous “we have removed points” because I obtained “points in a manner that is not appropriate.” I called Amex and was informed that I have a -100,000 MR balance and was told that if I reinstate the card, my balance would return to 0. So, I reinstated the card.

A week later I’m still at -100,000 and today was informed by a supervisor that I shall remain at -100,000 until I earn enough to reverse that.

Amex math:

+104,000 (spend + bonus) - 104,000 (closure forfeit) - 100,000 (clawback) = -100,000

Been an SPG cardholder since 2003. I don’t know what to do now. Any recommendations from you pros? Does -204,000 sound reasonable? It does to supervisor “Apollo” at Amex.

Mountain Trader

You were smart to add the last minute legit spend, despite posts here denigrating that strategy. Your facts indicate you clearly meet the requirements for 100k, so the only question is what strategy to employ.

If it were me, I would likely draft a letter to Amex listing purchase-by-purchase build-up of legit spend totaling over $3k. I would state clearly in your letter (as you have in your post) the lack of side issues such as prior Plat or card cancelling, which shouldn't matter but may clear the stage for discussing real issue. I'd send letter now, but be ready to use it again with CFPB and perhaps arbitration.

I don't think freeze vs. clawback indicates anything other than where you are in Amex' process.

dr0832

For anyone that contacted the CFPB what backup documents did you upload?

Mountain Trader

Huh? You're applying to enter into a contractural relationship with Amex that includes all of the terms and conditions offered by Amex, including the 100k bonus. The T&Cs don't say 'bonus to be determined later'; they say 'here's what you get if you do this'.

That said, while I agree Amex has the right to deny MS qualifying for meeting the minimum spend, the rest of this is really too strong-handed and ham-handed. Amex' customers are still getting uncertain and continuing actions by Amex in mid-October over card apps made on May 9. That reflects very poorly on a card company already thought of by many as now second tier.

dhuey

I think it is quite different. When you click "Apply Now" on a bonus offer page, you are indicating that you are responding to the bonus offer. Is it so much to ask that Amex made clear to you prior to acceptance that it is not willing to give you the bonus, due to your previous account? The applicant does not know if Amex will or will not enforce the T&C provision re previous card. Amex should declare its intentions right there at the application stage -- not months later when the cardholder sees no bonus after lots of spending.

gsxsilver

If you go against the t&c and gets caught; there is really not much to complain about unequal enforcement. Just like speeding pass a cop car and getting pull over only to complain why he didn't pull over the car that was speeding right next to you. Some of us get caught, some of us don't... fact of life.

dhuey

Applying for a bonus offer when you previously had the card is akin to speeding? I don't think so. Lot's of times companies disregard their own T&C to get new business.

Again, Amex must know that you've already had the card before when you apply via the bonus offer, right? Why do you excuse Amex for not speaking up right there and then? How hard would it be for Amex to program its systems to post a "sorry, you're not eligible for this offer" message in response to your application?