farnorthtrader

You might not want to waste any more of your time on this, they aren't giving them back

durberville

I don't get how you identify the $200 credit as "cash-equivalent". Regardless, the $200 DL PGGM charges were reversed by DL, and then AMEX issued a $200 credit on the account. I can't see any verbiage in any Terms (MR Agreement, Card Member Agreement, or Promotional Terms) that would allow for a $200 credit as a deduction from the total $3000 spend. That would, under basic contract principles, have to be very clear. Conceptually, a payment on an account is a credit, so would a payment bring your total purchase below $3000?

Further, in my case, the 100,000 points were issued after the $3000 spend, including the PGGM deductions. AMEX doesn't have the contractual ability to make the points deduction, and further, an equitable perspective would see that the issuance of points after the PGGM credit was applied, and rescinded three months later, is wrong.

I agree that AMEX would be fully within their rights to rescind the $200 credit, which was applied "in error."

Finally, not addressing your comment but of others, this is a question of contract law, not a question of personal ethics. If you believe what I did was wrong, so be it, but personal ethics isn't a question here.

36902BRF

@durberville was the rest of your spend organic or did it include MS type activities? The CSRs in this whole mess have been about as uniformed as we are and I think they were trying to come up with a reason to give you. If it included MS I'd suspect that is the real reason your points were pulled. It will be very interesting to see if Amex can really come after folks with a negative point balance.

durberville

No MS at all.

36902BRF

Wow I am surprised. Amex is getting tougher at least on this offer.

What really blows my mind is not that Amex is doing this but that there has been absolutely zero communication from them. Nothing on the points freeze and nothing so far on the clawbacks, the CSRs seem clueless. It will be really interesting to see what they say if and when they actually finally say something. I would have expected better communication from Amex.

farnorthtrader

Okay, evidently I don't know what DL PGGM means, but from this it appears that this was reversed by DL, so it should not count toward your $3000 purchases requirement. So it comes down to whether the $200 credit is going to be treated like a credit from a return or a credit like a payment. I briefly went through terms and conditions that I could find and could find no definition for purchase, return or credit, but I am pretty sure that your whole premise turns on how those terms are defined.
I absolutely agree that what they are doing is wrong, I just don't hold out a lot of hope that you will ever win. They hold the ultimate hammer of being able to close your account and take your points for any reason or no reason, and then you are stuck with court to get your 100,000 points back.

mia

It appears they are using this offer as a pilot program to test a range of policy implementations. The freeze on new account bonus points has already spread to other offers. I anticipate that some of these other practices will also spread, and some will be discarded. Then, I would expect to see offer terms re-written to bring policy and practice into closer alignment.

It certainly sounds as if one objective will be to make it (nearly) impossible to earn a new account bonus and refund the annual fee for the first year.

durberville

Oh, I've already redeemed the 100,000 points. My concern is being in a negative balance, which could be treated as a points advance and charged at $25/1,000 MR per their terms.

Here's what the *basic* accounting looks like:

+$3000 - Non MS Spend
+$200 - Delta Charges
-$200 - Delta Refund
- $200 - Platinum Travel Credit

So what they're trying to claim is that the Platinum Travel credit brings the total spend down to $2800. Again, nothing in their Terms allows for this.

Happy

Here is a new twist. Take it however you want to interpret but AMEX is clearly in the wrong here.

2 days ago friend found out his 100K was taken back. Friend spent over $8K in the 90 days period, at Expedia, Hilton, Delta and State Farm for the majority of it. The family had a July vacation in London and he booked some expensive daytrips using the Plat card in June, a DL redemption as well as property insurances.

Upon calling Membership Reward after finding out 100K were taken back, he was informed by the MR rep that the notation on his account was that it was due to he made a $500+ return during the promotion period, despite he had spend $8K+, all organic spend.

Friend pointed out he had spend $8K+ so a $500+ return should not ever affect the required spend being met within the promo period. MR Rep agreed and open a case "to investigate".

It looks either AMEX had some stupid reviewers or its IT had serious programming flaw.

Happy

See my post about what happened to a friend. He spent $8K+ all organic. He had a $500+ legitimate return. AMEX took back the 100K leaving him a negative 91K balance. Reason given? because he had a $500+ return even though he had spent $8K+.

Since when a return would disqualify you for the sign up bonus when the credit in no way would reduce the spend below the required spend?!

missing_link

Amex has literally never responded when I was told that a case was being opened to investigate something. In my experience, that just means you have to push on your own for a satisfactory resolution.

michael_v

When you say the freeze has spread to other offers, were those offers for MR cards or co-brand or both?

Happy

Yup. I told him to escalate it if he did not hear anything back within 2 weeks.

mia

Mercedes Benz version of Platinum Card, if I recall correctly. Will look for links.

LINK

Mountain Trader

Your friend is in the right, and should (and I think will) have 100k re-instated.

I'm not sure you saw post #655 in which Duberville outlined all the facts. The cardholder there tried to wind up with 100k, $200 DL credit and no fee (cancelled card). No wonder Amex is swinging the hammer. Whether they're correct or not, time will tell.

Did someone say ethics? Hey-this is FlyerTalk.