The Death Spiral of the Centurion Card
Jan 10, 2014, 3:56 pm
#121
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: YVR
Programs: Bonvoy Lifetime Plat (earned as Starwood), Canadian Amex Plat & resulting statuses, WestJet Silver
Posts: 663
Well, you are of course entitled to both your opinion and perceptions; I'm not going to try to dissuade you. But to be clear, "Centurion" or the Roman Gladiator, is essentially American Express Corporation's "logo" or mascot and has been since 1958. The "Centurion" logo is basically on all Amex charge cards (i.e. Green/Gold/Platinum) not just the Centurion card.
I believe in this case, the naming is an extension of their corporate branding, and not the card. In fact, I'd submit most average "Joe Sixpack" Americans absolutely recognize the logo and have no idea the Cent card exists. Additionally, since we are having this discussion in a thread titled "The Death Spiral of the Centurion Card" and many Cent card holders in this thread willing admit they continue to hold the card out of "fear of letting" it go than out of any real rational belief that the card is any longer worth the money, I'm not sure how much "prestige or exclusivity" this card has remaining.
Regards
I believe in this case, the naming is an extension of their corporate branding, and not the card. In fact, I'd submit most average "Joe Sixpack" Americans absolutely recognize the logo and have no idea the Cent card exists. Additionally, since we are having this discussion in a thread titled "The Death Spiral of the Centurion Card" and many Cent card holders in this thread willing admit they continue to hold the card out of "fear of letting" it go than out of any real rational belief that the card is any longer worth the money, I'm not sure how much "prestige or exclusivity" this card has remaining.
Regards
Jan 10, 2014, 5:19 pm
#122
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K 1.8MM
Posts: 110
Basically an information only post-
After 10 years as Centurion holders my husband and I threw in the towel a few weeks ago. Well as the second cardholder I had thrown in the towel and downgraded to Plat 2 years ago. I figured I could upgrade if things improved. As you all know, they didn't and we finally decided to bolt completely. Well, we were 90% sure we would when we called... but you know, were open to being convinced to stay, maybe. The call itself ended that. Waited on hold for about 15 minutes on a Saturday afternoon, then had a brief conversation indicating our intentions and were transferred to wait on hold another 10 minutes. Wow. At that point the original person came back and said no one could speak with us and someone would call back within... 48 hours.
Amazing. They didn't. It was Tuesday midday when they finally did. Not much attempt to retain us. They did say that my husband could reinstate without spend requalification and initiation fee within 45 days if he changed his mind. I thought the grace period used to be a year, but not absolutely sure. Anyway, the lack of any sort of the old Centurion customer service in this process made the decision much easier to bear! So, that's that. We're retaining Plat for most of the same benefits Centurion offers anyway and transferring spend to SPG AMEX. Now that we've done it I really feel we were idiots to hold on so long! For anyone on the fence it's sort of a relief when you finally give up and stop kidding yourself that things will get better! 
After 10 years as Centurion holders my husband and I threw in the towel a few weeks ago. Well as the second cardholder I had thrown in the towel and downgraded to Plat 2 years ago. I figured I could upgrade if things improved. As you all know, they didn't and we finally decided to bolt completely. Well, we were 90% sure we would when we called... but you know, were open to being convinced to stay, maybe. The call itself ended that. Waited on hold for about 15 minutes on a Saturday afternoon, then had a brief conversation indicating our intentions and were transferred to wait on hold another 10 minutes. Wow. At that point the original person came back and said no one could speak with us and someone would call back within... 48 hours.
Amazing. They didn't. It was Tuesday midday when they finally did. Not much attempt to retain us. They did say that my husband could reinstate without spend requalification and initiation fee within 45 days if he changed his mind. I thought the grace period used to be a year, but not absolutely sure. Anyway, the lack of any sort of the old Centurion customer service in this process made the decision much easier to bear! So, that's that. We're retaining Plat for most of the same benefits Centurion offers anyway and transferring spend to SPG AMEX. Now that we've done it I really feel we were idiots to hold on so long! For anyone on the fence it's sort of a relief when you finally give up and stop kidding yourself that things will get better!
Jan 10, 2014, 5:39 pm
#123
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: YVR
Programs: Bonvoy Lifetime Plat (earned as Starwood), Canadian Amex Plat & resulting statuses, WestJet Silver
Posts: 663
Basically an information only post-
After 10 years as Centurion holders my husband and I threw in the towel a few weeks ago. Well as the second cardholder I had thrown in the towel and downgraded to Plat 2 years ago. I figured I could upgrade if things improved. As you all know, they didn't and we finally decided to bolt completely. Well, we were 90% sure we would when we called... but you know, were open to being convinced to stay, maybe. The call itself ended that. Waited on hold for about 15 minutes on a Saturday afternoon, then had a brief conversation indicating our intentions and were transferred to wait on hold another 10 minutes. Wow. At that point the original person came back and said no one could speak with us and someone would call back within... 48 hours. Amazing. They didn't. It was Tuesday midday when they finally did. Not much attempt to retain us. They did say that my husband could reinstate without spend requalification and initiation fee within 45 days if he changed his mind. I thought the grace period used to be a year, but not absolutely sure. Anyway, the lack of any sort of the old Centurion customer service in this process made the decision much easier to bear! So, that's that. We're retaining Plat for most of the same benefits Centurion offers anyway and transferring spend to SPG AMEX. Now that we've done it I really feel we were idiots to hold on so long! For anyone on the fence it's sort of a relief when you finally give up and stop kidding yourself that things will get better!
After 10 years as Centurion holders my husband and I threw in the towel a few weeks ago. Well as the second cardholder I had thrown in the towel and downgraded to Plat 2 years ago. I figured I could upgrade if things improved. As you all know, they didn't and we finally decided to bolt completely. Well, we were 90% sure we would when we called... but you know, were open to being convinced to stay, maybe. The call itself ended that. Waited on hold for about 15 minutes on a Saturday afternoon, then had a brief conversation indicating our intentions and were transferred to wait on hold another 10 minutes. Wow. At that point the original person came back and said no one could speak with us and someone would call back within... 48 hours.
Amazing. They didn't. It was Tuesday midday when they finally did. Not much attempt to retain us. They did say that my husband could reinstate without spend requalification and initiation fee within 45 days if he changed his mind. I thought the grace period used to be a year, but not absolutely sure. Anyway, the lack of any sort of the old Centurion customer service in this process made the decision much easier to bear! So, that's that. We're retaining Plat for most of the same benefits Centurion offers anyway and transferring spend to SPG AMEX. Now that we've done it I really feel we were idiots to hold on so long! For anyone on the fence it's sort of a relief when you finally give up and stop kidding yourself that things will get better!
Jan 10, 2014, 6:21 pm
#124
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro, Hyatt Globalist, Amex Plat
Posts: 7,043
If Amex made this Plat/Cent only and free to us, do you really believe your annual fee would stay the same? Think about it, previously Amex was paying airlines "swipe fees" for cardholder access. Now they are having to take on the operational expenses of acquiring/leasing physical lounge space, building out said space, hiring and training employees (and covering their benefits, etc), purchasing complimentary alcohol and food, I could go on and on.
Does anyone really believe those costs are less than the swipe fees they were paying? Does anyone really believe Amex desired this outcome? Seriously?
These changes have far more to do with airlines taking back control of their "premium" products than with Amex not being willing to pay the airlines to maintain the access.
Regards
Jan 10, 2014, 9:15 pm
#125
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: RDU
Posts: 389
This is a race to the bottom my friend. If you don't think all three of the remaining domestic carriers aren't thinking about all these same strategies (e.g. will AA follow UA/DL and add a revenue component to elite status qualification?) I'd say you aren't paying attention to the long term trend.
Repeat after me, "travel isn't going to be as fun as the good old days"
Regards
Repeat after me, "travel isn't going to be as fun as the good old days"
Regards
I'd make a similar comment about the AmEx products. Ten years ago I was wrestling with juicing my spend to get the Cent card because the benefits seemed pretty awesome. With increased fees and decreased benefits, I wouldn't touch it right now if they waived the initiation fee. I'll give AmEx six months, but at this point, I'm wrestling with the value of my Platinum card.
Jan 11, 2014, 8:23 am
#126
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro, Hyatt Globalist, Amex Plat
Posts: 7,043
I didn't say that UA or AA could retain the converts, just that they could poach them. Given my sig below, I think I've got some clue about the trends. I completely agree with you that we're in a race to the bottom right now, and that an enjoyable flying experience will require increasing amounts of money or creativity.
I'd make a similar comment about the AmEx products. Ten years ago I was wrestling with juicing my spend to get the Cent card because the benefits seemed pretty awesome. With increased fees and decreased benefits, I wouldn't touch it right now if they waived the initiation fee. I'll give AmEx six months, but at this point, I'm wrestling with the value of my Platinum card.
Additionally, we use Priority Pass lounges several times a year.
So I'm still getting some value, but I'll be keeping a serious eye on it; the AA club access loss was a pretty big blow, and my first thought was to cancel based on that, but I sat down and did the math and we are still net positive on the card.
To me the value of the Cent card isn't even on the bubble anymore; it's gone. The "I'm keeping it because I'm scared it will get better again some day" is a very expensive strategy.
Regards
Jan 11, 2014, 8:29 pm
#127
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA 1K, DL Platinum, Lifetime Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold
Posts: 206
I've been in the same boat as most of you for a few years. Thinking about cancelling, and hoping they'll add something cool. But every year stuff keeps going away, yet we hope for the best. I was one of the first Centurion members, since 1999, so it's been hard to let go.
A few times I wrote a letter or an email to Mark Savory, who is the head Centurion guy in Ft. Lauderdale. Previous letters to AMEX HQ in New York have gone unanswered, or form-lettered.
Mark has been fairly responsive, but largely ineffective in addressing the death spiral of Centurion benefits. Even the long hold times and quality of core benefits have been problems that have gotten worse.
Perhaps if everyone who reads this wrote him, rather than just posted on this board, we'd see some kind of movement.
PM me for his email address.
Make your voices heard. We didn't get this card from a mailer; we earned it. We are road warriors. Go forth an conquer Centurions!
Please let us know what kind of response you get.
A few times I wrote a letter or an email to Mark Savory, who is the head Centurion guy in Ft. Lauderdale. Previous letters to AMEX HQ in New York have gone unanswered, or form-lettered.
Mark has been fairly responsive, but largely ineffective in addressing the death spiral of Centurion benefits. Even the long hold times and quality of core benefits have been problems that have gotten worse.
Perhaps if everyone who reads this wrote him, rather than just posted on this board, we'd see some kind of movement.
PM me for his email address.
Make your voices heard. We didn't get this card from a mailer; we earned it. We are road warriors. Go forth an conquer Centurions!
Please let us know what kind of response you get.
Last edited by Echelon; Jan 12, 2014 at 8:51 pm Reason: Remove email address
Jan 11, 2014, 10:30 pm
#128
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,689
I am not sure Amex Centurion wants road warriors or even people with high spend that is reimbursed. I think they want CEOs, Celebs, etc. But who really knows but Amex
Last edited by mia; Jan 12, 2014 at 12:17 pm Reason: Prune quotation
Jan 12, 2014, 9:31 am
#129
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: RDU
Posts: 389
Certainly, I'm wrestling with it too. However, I try to focus less on "has the Platinum card lost value relative to the past?" That is an easy answer; of course it has. But, I try to focus on am I still "net positive" on benefits? I think the answer is still yes, at least right now. We use the $200 airline credit for AA gift cards, which is airfare spend that would occur with or with having the card. So, that leaves me with effectively a $250 annual fee. We literally saved more than that, just in breakfasts, via an FHR stay at the Ritz Carlton Berlin in November (not to mention also getting a comp night and room upgrade).
I think MIA is correct in the assessment that AmEx has touted the airline lounge access as the primary benefit for too long. Perhaps I should step back from the ledge and say that I'll monitor this situation and re-evaluate the cost/benefit ratio of the card in a year or two.
Jan 12, 2014, 3:05 pm
#130
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 208
Well if you want to hear a killer amex upgrade story, a few years back with amex plat got the Skylofts at MGM in Vegas for $450.00 night that included an upgrade to a Massive two bedroom skyloft, free breakfast, massage credits and Airport transfer in their Rolls.
I doubt Amex/MGM will ever offer that deal again
I doubt Amex/MGM will ever offer that deal again
Jan 12, 2014, 3:44 pm
#131
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: CDG
Programs: A bit of this and a bit of that
Posts: 777
From its inception, I thought the whole idea of the Centurion Lounge was flawed. I cringed when I first heard about it. Attaching the Cent name to a lounge that is open to so many people that it is frequently filled to capacity, as is the case in LAS, just further erodes the exclusivity of the Cent product and brand IMO.
If they're going to be in the lounge business, and I'm not saying they shouldn't be, they should follow the model used by many international airlines. Take BA's model, Terraces Lounges for Business Class passengers and/or ones with status, First Lounges for First Class Passengers, and the even higher tier Concorde Room for Transatlantic First Class Passengers. I think Amex should do something similar within their lounges. First off, call the lounges themselves simply, The American Express Lounge. Within the lounges, have two sections, a large American Express Traveler Lounge for Platinum members or people who paid to enter (Terraces equivalent) and a separate Centurion Lounge (First / Concorde Room equivalent) that is behind glass doors, exclusively for Cents. Besides addressing the issue of crowding, it would also end the tacky and awkward practice of them offering special drinks to Cents in front of other guests, as they do in LAS, "Sir, your black card entitles you to Johnny Walker Blue Label or 'good' Champagne, would you like to have either?"
If they're going to be in the lounge business, and I'm not saying they shouldn't be, they should follow the model used by many international airlines. Take BA's model, Terraces Lounges for Business Class passengers and/or ones with status, First Lounges for First Class Passengers, and the even higher tier Concorde Room for Transatlantic First Class Passengers. I think Amex should do something similar within their lounges. First off, call the lounges themselves simply, The American Express Lounge. Within the lounges, have two sections, a large American Express Traveler Lounge for Platinum members or people who paid to enter (Terraces equivalent) and a separate Centurion Lounge (First / Concorde Room equivalent) that is behind glass doors, exclusively for Cents. Besides addressing the issue of crowding, it would also end the tacky and awkward practice of them offering special drinks to Cents in front of other guests, as they do in LAS, "Sir, your black card entitles you to Johnny Walker Blue Label or 'good' Champagne, would you like to have either?"
Jan 12, 2014, 4:13 pm
#132
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: DCA
Posts: 77
That's how they are doing it in Argentina!. A new Centurion Lounge is open now, very similar to the LAS new Centurion Lounge. Only difference is that there's the lounge for the plat cardholders and gold ones who pay.. and then there's a smaller but exclusive lounge inside this one, for the centurion ones. I think its pretty cool, and how it should be everywhere.
Jan 12, 2014, 5:42 pm
#133
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Southern California
Programs: Alaska MVP 75K, Delta Plat, Bonvoy Ambasador, Hilton diamond.
Posts: 527
I was in the MEX centurion lounge 2x times over the holidays while connecting through...the centurion exclusive upstairs area is very nice, i'd venture to say its on par with BA concord room at LHR but there are differences. Alcohol selection is much poorer...food is spectacular. Wife got a comp massage, I got a manicure & pedicure. Really, nice lounge although the SPA was clearly shoe horned in there after the lounge opened.
If the new centurion lounges in the US have a similar offering for centurions then its a great value...sadly they don't, the LAS lounge is overcrowded with a mediocre spread and nothing special for centurions. DFW is better, but only been through there once.
we will have to wait & see what happens, personally I think AMEX should keep these lounges exclusive, as in Platinums are not allowed guests, pay $29 or whatever to bring a guest in. Otherwise, its like the Delta problem...the lounges are overrun.
If the new centurion lounges in the US have a similar offering for centurions then its a great value...sadly they don't, the LAS lounge is overcrowded with a mediocre spread and nothing special for centurions. DFW is better, but only been through there once.
we will have to wait & see what happens, personally I think AMEX should keep these lounges exclusive, as in Platinums are not allowed guests, pay $29 or whatever to bring a guest in. Otherwise, its like the Delta problem...the lounges are overrun.
Jan 12, 2014, 8:21 pm
#134
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,528
I'm concerned that the DFW lounge will become crowded as well.
Jan 13, 2014, 6:52 am
#135
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 7
City Clubs
What would you guys think if Amex took the idea of the Centurion Clubs and extended them into the city? I'm thinking something like the Princeton/Yale Club in NYC where you could entertain clients or have lunch meetings.
I'd suggest that it would be open only to Centurion card holders to keep it relatively traffic free. Maybe put one in NYC, SFO, ORD, LAX, LON to start.
While it wouldn't fall strictly into the travel category, it could rebuild some loyalty if Centurion holders considered it as their go-to place to have a lunch or dinner meeting with clients. Thoughts?
I'd suggest that it would be open only to Centurion card holders to keep it relatively traffic free. Maybe put one in NYC, SFO, ORD, LAX, LON to start.
While it wouldn't fall strictly into the travel category, it could rebuild some loyalty if Centurion holders considered it as their go-to place to have a lunch or dinner meeting with clients. Thoughts?