omaralt

no trust me i understand. this is a forum for people to discussabout travel related issues. there is nothing to argue about with the OPs case; he broke the rules and the miles have been confiscated. i'm simply arguing that i dont think AA should care what you do with miles you have purchased/earned. but again, thats just my opinion.

SeattleDavid

The thing you're failing to appreciate is that AA doesn't really mind if mistakes do happen. Given the skills of their analysts I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have a target detection rate that then can estimate quite well.

And if AA accuse someone of selling when they didn't, the onus is on the person to prove that they weren't sold rather than on AA to prove that they were. And I think there are stories in the main thread where they did that and they got their miles and accounts back again (but these are a very very small minority of cases).

People give award flights to others who are not connected to them in any publicly visible way and 99% of the time these people fly with no hassle – maybe 1% or fewer get asked how they know the donor of the miles, or whether they paid for the ticket. But, as JonNYC has said, read the main thread to find the gory details on the tiny percentage that go further than that.

carlosdca

Because when it comes to flying on a commercial airline, common sense is usually "self-serving" and it does not help improve the flying experience, which I thought is one of the purposes of flyertalk.

Does the AA carry-on "sizer" makes common sense?
Does the fact that EXP don't earn stickers makes common sense?
Does it make common sense that JFK-LHR is more expensive than JFK-LHR-BCN?
Why does the GA upgrade that non-rev to F while the EXP with no upgrade instruments available is sitting on the exit row?

It doesn't matter. The rules are the rules. The facts are the facts.

I am not going to come here and encourage or sympathize with someone that tried to sell miles (for whatever noble reason) knowing that it is not allowed according to the T&C and people do get in trouble for it.
Common sense is irrelevant in this case.

Antarius

The sizer doesnt as it doesnt reflect the changing and evolving fleet, but the rest make sense. Nothing earth shattering on any of them.

pinniped

I'll even defend the "common sense" around prohibiting the buying/selling of miles.

If an airline openly permitted this, their program would quickly become unrewarding to honest members. Think about any ticketing venue that takes no actions to reduce the impact of brokers, touts, bots, etc. You quickly learn to hate it, hate the process, and ultimately hate the underlying brand. If an airline *didn't* aggressively take down mileage brokers, those brokers would exploit the exact areas of the program where we most want to redeem awards - the best international J/F partners. Why? Because that's where the value is. Airlines might react by raising the redemption levels so high that there's no value arbitrage to be had, or just tighten availability to the point where hardly any seats exist to begin with. Either way, the rest of us are hosed.

It's already hard enough to get these seats just competing with other honest members. It's common sense that the airlines want their FFP to be a positive asset, not something with the toxic public image of Ticketmaster. Thus, it's in their interest to ban the brokers and devote some effort into blocking them wherever they pop up.

craz

It would be nice if AA spelled it all out as you just did. Instead they will rely on whats buried somewhere in T&Cs in legalize. Id bet that the vast majority of people actually believe that in fact the Miles they have are theirs and they own them

It would also be nice if the AA cops would contact someone like the OP and inform them , we know you have just joined AA please note this is your 1 and only warning, selling, offering to sell, barter etc etc is against the T&Cs you agreed to when you signed up, not having the offer removed or making another offer elsewhere will have its penalties. Instead they atke whats buried in their T&Cs as the 1 warning

bse118

The T&Cs clearly state: "Accrued mileage credit and award tickets do not constitute property of the member."

That's not legalize - that's plain English.

AA makes all of this easily available: https://www.aa.com/i18n/aadvantage-p...conditions.jsp

There's no ambiguity here. AA's not hiding these restrictions and policies.

enpremiere

You're absolutely correct - Not sure why I only focused on the gate ID check but I stand 10000000% corrected that there shouldn't ever be a situation where a traveler in the past few years could make it a gate with someone else's ticket.

Even with gate passes the ID has to match.

carlosdca

This is very naive.
Let's say cousin Barbra wants to sell her miles.
She is by no means a computer wiz, but she knows how to google.
First thing she will do is type on google "SELL MILES".

This is what comes up:

Do you think she won't click on the first link just out of curiosity after reading the first lines?
And it is all there.

Wen Zheng

my 2c. Advertising itself does not result in voiding. is only the action of transferred for cash or other consideration that can result in the voiding of the miles.

JonNYC

No, 100% incorrect.

Read it again.

craz

Sorry but I dont believe that is what most folks would do, if anything they heard about it from a friend or others talking how they just made $$$$ selling their miles, a few might do as you suggested. Or as it seems in our OPs case they purchased the miles with the intent on using them then when they tried to they probably only found Anytime Awards or a Saver with 2 connections needing an overnight and taking 24 hrs instead of 8 to get there. their mistake was not 1st checking what the situation would be for the destination/s they were interested in going to 1st. No different then Hilton where they have been selling miles cheaply only to find out you arent gonna get into the Waldorf with a view room

carlosdca

You are telling me that someone that wants to get rid of her miles (whether she heard it from a friend or read it on the internet)
is not going to google "Sell Miles"?
She is going straight to craigslist to the right place to post an ad...?
ok

craz

Have you ever rented a car? Can you honestly say you read all the print on the back of the contract. I havent and thankfully its hasnt come into play, but I know a number of people who were left holding the bag when the rental company referred to something that they agreed to that was printed on the back of the contract by signing the contact

I will admit to never having read ALL the T&Cs of not only AA but all Carriers, Hotel and car rental programs

Now maybe the OPs intent from get go was they thought they could flip the miles fast and at a profit, or that someone from AA called the OP and they went back and forth but in the end couldnt agree on a mutual price. I didnt hear any conversations to know. But if all that happened was the AA police saw the ad and # and found it to be the OPs and the OP never received a warning before, then a warning should have been given. Then again it seems the OP never flew on a rev tkt on AA so I can see why no warning but disagree and a warning should have ben given as long as the story as the OP tells it is true and the person is their real Aunt

yabadoo

Airlines do not like frequent flyers offering or trading miles for compensation one way or the other. This distorts the market and the pricing of tickets, if there was an active gray market where miles were traded then the airline would have less control and information on true demand for paid seats thus obfuscating pricing algorithms, and ultimately loss of cash revenue. If miles were easily tradeable and plenty available, everyone would be doing it and instead of people going to the airline to buy tickets they would first go to see if they could buy miles to book instead going to an airline or agent to buy directly, thus disrupting pricing for the airline. While airlines would obviously prefer the miles to expire unused, there is a financial liability and cost that is recorded in financial statements of airlines of miles that have not expired and remain unused, so monitoring and maintaining the program is not without cost or effort.