AA Penalty for Selling My AA Miles
Aug 14, 2019, 7:20 pm
#136
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This has nothing to do with logic or ethics. However disagreeable the program may be, AA's terms and conditions prohibit this behavior and they reserve the right to take action against abusers.
There have been lengthy discussions as to the ethics of this that fall well outside the purview of this particular thread but it's AA's house and barring some landmark legal or legislative action to the contrary, consumer protections for rewards programs will continue to remain one-sided.
There have been lengthy discussions as to the ethics of this that fall well outside the purview of this particular thread but it's AA's house and barring some landmark legal or legislative action to the contrary, consumer protections for rewards programs will continue to remain one-sided.
Aug 14, 2019, 7:25 pm
#137
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The algorithms may be different, but a human analysing is still following a process
Aug 14, 2019, 7:38 pm
#138
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Does anyone else seem it a just a bit odd that even advertising some type of situation would violate T&Cs. I know there is no first amendment provision in private parties, but I find that a tad "chilling". Sort of akin to the stories that you hear that a company reserves the right to sue you if you post a negative review of them on HomeAway, TripAdvisor, or Yelp.
Aug 14, 2019, 7:47 pm
#139
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Does anyone else seem it a just a bit odd that even advertising some type of situation would violate T&Cs. I know there is no first amendment provision in private parties, but I find that a tad "chilling". Sort of akin to the stories that you hear that a company reserves the right to sue you if you post a negative review of them on HomeAway, TripAdvisor, or Yelp.
This t&c provision is not even remotely related to the negative review issues. It is also why analogies rarely, if ever, work.
AA prohibits members from advertising for sale that which they may not sale. That has less than nothing to do with an individual posting a negative review about some restaurant.
Aug 14, 2019, 7:52 pm
#140
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Does anyone else seem it a just a bit odd that even advertising some type of situation would violate T&Cs. I know there is no first amendment provision in private parties, but I find that a tad "chilling". Sort of akin to the stories that you hear that a company reserves the right to sue you if you post a negative review of them on HomeAway, TripAdvisor, or Yelp.
Next level might be “thought”...They come up with an algorithm to identify susceptible individuals and send out entrapment requests to buy miles to lure you in...
Last edited by nk15; Aug 14, 2019 at 8:05 pm
Aug 14, 2019, 7:53 pm
#141
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Aug 14, 2019, 8:07 pm
#142
Join Date: Dec 2010
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OP violated the rules. Full stop. End of story.
Excerpted from the AAdvantage terms and conditions:
You are responsible for reading the AAdvantage® Program Terms and Conditions, additional member information, AAdvantage® newsletters and account summaries online at aa.com in order to understand your rights, responsibilities, and status under the AAdvantage® program. American Airlines may amend its rules of the Program at any time without notice. American Airlines has no liability for correspondence that is misdirected, lost, stolen, damaged or delayed.
At no time may AAdvantage® mileage credit or award tickets be purchased, sold, advertised for sale or bartered (including but not limited to transferring, gifting, or promising mileage credit or award tickets in exchange for support of a certain business, product or charity and/or participation in an auction, sweepstakes, raffle or contest). Any such mileage or tickets are void if transferred for cash or other consideration. Violators (including any passenger who uses a purchased or bartered award ticket) may be liable for damages and litigation costs, including American Airlines attorneys’ fees incurred in enforcing this rule.
You are responsible for reading the AAdvantage® Program Terms and Conditions, additional member information, AAdvantage® newsletters and account summaries online at aa.com in order to understand your rights, responsibilities, and status under the AAdvantage® program. American Airlines may amend its rules of the Program at any time without notice. American Airlines has no liability for correspondence that is misdirected, lost, stolen, damaged or delayed.
At no time may AAdvantage® mileage credit or award tickets be purchased, sold, advertised for sale or bartered (including but not limited to transferring, gifting, or promising mileage credit or award tickets in exchange for support of a certain business, product or charity and/or participation in an auction, sweepstakes, raffle or contest). Any such mileage or tickets are void if transferred for cash or other consideration. Violators (including any passenger who uses a purchased or bartered award ticket) may be liable for damages and litigation costs, including American Airlines attorneys’ fees incurred in enforcing this rule.
Aug 14, 2019, 8:12 pm
#143
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It is clear based on the T & Cs, I agree. Advertisement is intent and action towards sale.
Aug 14, 2019, 9:28 pm
#144
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So, out of curiosity, in theory, what is the problem with someone selling miles that they either bought from the airline or otherwise earned? Logic says you earned the currency you can do whatever you want with it. Has anyone challenged the airlines in court about this bs? Like a real court, consumer oriented?
You don't see a problem with advertising something for sale that you cannot deliver to a ready, willing and able buyer who accepts your terms and agrees to pay your asking price? If I'm that prospective buyer, you could well find yourself on the receiving end of a lawsuit, depending on how much money is involved and how easy it would be for me to acquire the item elsewhere under similar terms.
Aug 14, 2019, 9:49 pm
#145
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I was suggesting that if that was the case, and aunts ticket was less than 150,000 miles, I dont understand why it was cancelled.
I understand AA were within their rights to take all miles - but they didn’t. So why take 300,000 of their 450,000 miles and still cancel a ticket that OP had enough miles left to purchase.......unless they do believe that aunts ticket was fraudulent..... which in turn, begs the question as to why they didn’t take all the miles - the 300,000 for the attempted sale and whatever aunts ticket cost.
Or or am I missing something?
I understand AA were within their rights to take all miles - but they didn’t. So why take 300,000 of their 450,000 miles and still cancel a ticket that OP had enough miles left to purchase.......unless they do believe that aunts ticket was fraudulent..... which in turn, begs the question as to why they didn’t take all the miles - the 300,000 for the attempted sale and whatever aunts ticket cost.
Or or am I missing something?
Probably missing something. Let's say aunt's ticket cost 100k. If they don't cancel the ticket, then they have effectively only penalized OP for 200k miles because they've let the OP use 100K of the 300K and still keep the remaining 150K. Cancelling the ticket ensures that the 100k for the new ticket comes out of the 150k they've let the OP keep.
Aug 14, 2019, 11:22 pm
#146
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That’s not how it was stated in the post which I quoted when responding; but going with the above limitation, then that ID check is rare for domestic US flights — at least on tickets with no onward international flight connection. But it still happens at times at the gate too.
Last edited by GUWonder; Aug 14, 2019 at 11:30 pm
Aug 15, 2019, 12:11 am
#147
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 508
Probably missing something. Let's say aunt's ticket cost 100k. If they don't cancel the ticket, then they have effectively only penalized OP for 200k miles because they've let the OP use 100K of the 300K and still keep the remaining 150K. Cancelling the ticket ensures that the 100k for the new ticket comes out of the 150k they've let the OP keep.
surely, If you have 450,000 and buy a ticket for 100,000 you are left with with 350k. AA still take their 300k penalty and you are left with 50k.
Aug 15, 2019, 1:01 am
#148
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Plenty of things happen in life that will cause you to lose time or cause you to pay for more expensive things due to timing.
With very few exceptions, unless you have a ticket in your name, you're not making it through the security checkpoint.
Aug 15, 2019, 1:11 am
#149
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In addition to this, in order to maintain that the miles are property of the airline, when you purchase miles, if you look hard enough at the web pages, you'll notice that you're purchasing the miles from a third party, often Points.com/Points International and not from the airline itself (otherwise a direct sale would imply ownership)
Aug 15, 2019, 1:16 am
#150
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Well is there proof that AA ever saw the Craigslist post? Could it be he bought a huge number of miles then suddenly a ticket not in his name was booked for someone, likely with a different last name and address. There would be no way for AA to ascertain this person is his Aunt but certainly buying a horde of miles and never using them for yourself (or someone in your immediate family with your last name) would look awfully suspicious.
Either way the OP has made his own bed. If he can provide definitive objective proof of his relationship and admit to the attempt to sell miles (which AA might not even know about) he might get back his 300K miles but I wouldn't count on it.
Either way the OP has made his own bed. If he can provide definitive objective proof of his relationship and admit to the attempt to sell miles (which AA might not even know about) he might get back his 300K miles but I wouldn't count on it.
AA doesn't take action on your account simply because you get a ticket for someone with a different last name and address.
He also indicated he offered 300K for sale and that is exactly what they took.