19 years of EXP , had surgery this year and AA will not grant me an extension
Dec 20, 2018, 11:15 am
#76
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
Part of the problem is that people have been abusing the system which leaves airlines less likely to grant exceptions for divorces (another thread), family emergencies, medical conditions,etc.
Historically, neither AA nor Delta has been willing to do anything for deployed FFP elites. For example, I know from my own experiences as well as from friends, that 9 to 18 month tours in Iraq and Afghanistan tend to reduce your EQD and EQM. That can't be scammed but neither Delta nor American will do anything about it. In contrast, Marriott and Hilton will hold status.
Historically, neither AA nor Delta has been willing to do anything for deployed FFP elites. For example, I know from my own experiences as well as from friends, that 9 to 18 month tours in Iraq and Afghanistan tend to reduce your EQD and EQM. That can't be scammed but neither Delta nor American will do anything about it. In contrast, Marriott and Hilton will hold status.
Dec 20, 2018, 11:57 am
#77
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
They most definitely aren't.
For sure. This January-- like every January before-- AAdv will do it's "elite exceptions" -- rounding-up, as it were, members who came close (not that that applies in the OP's case,) and will do so based on Helix score and member profitability $-figure. It's a not particularly small group that gets it, same for this year.
They, of course, do their best to never reveal this (and certainly rarely if ever promise in advance-- and never explicitly) so as to not impact sales of last-minute buy-ups.
They, of course, do their best to never reveal this (and certainly rarely if ever promise in advance-- and never explicitly) so as to not impact sales of last-minute buy-ups.
Dec 20, 2018, 12:45 pm
#78
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: The FT AA forum, until it no longer wants me.
Programs: CK or bust
Posts: 1,913
That's a pretty broad generalization - in reality entitled people come in all stripes. I've seen it with young and old, etc. Maybe a little easier for older people to say "Y years" than younger people as a reason but there are all sorts of reasons. I think on any given day on FT you can see threads that reek of entitlement posted and I am sure that they come from all sorts of people.
Dec 20, 2018, 1:34 pm
#79
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,434
AA gives large corporations (and "influencers") some number of elite status qualifications that they can hand out to whoever they want, even to people who hardly fly much. Are the standards published? Does AA even have consistent standards? Is this practice any more or less fair than making a one-off exemption to a long-time EXP?
Dec 20, 2018, 1:42 pm
#80
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
AA gives large corporations (and "influencers") some number of elite status qualifications that they can hand out to whoever they want, even to people who hardly fly much. Are the standards published? Does AA even have consistent standards? Is this practice any more or less fair than making a one-off exemption to a long-time EXP?
The concept of a VIP is not unique to commercial aviation.
The discretion of the AA sales people who negotiate those corporate contracts is of course controlled.
Dec 20, 2018, 1:50 pm
#81
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: AY+ Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 2,846
A simple recognition of the fact that the passenger is not always the customer. The guy who controls a multi-million dollar travel budget may have a personal travel spend which would not qualify him for Gold. But, you can bet that AA works to assure that things go right for him and that when things do go wrong, he gets taken care of.
The concept of a VIP is not unique to commercial aviation.
The discretion of the AA sales people who negotiate those corporate contracts is of course controlled.
The concept of a VIP is not unique to commercial aviation.
The discretion of the AA sales people who negotiate those corporate contracts is of course controlled.
Of course, there probably has to be line drawn somewhere...
Dec 20, 2018, 2:17 pm
#82
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2006
Programs: AAdvantage PP
Posts: 13,913
AA like any large company makes decisions solely on data and excepted returns. So for example as long as "x" number of people that get gifted EXP status for a period ultimately obtain EXP status under the guidelines of the promotion, and then keep EXP status long term then the "free" promotions will continue. Unfortunately, data doesn't do "one offs" very well and companies are taking away resources to deal with one offs in favor of data driven decisions. Accordingly, data might show that when AA gives EXP status in a case like this "X %" never (re)obtain EXP status in the next year (in this case 2019) so AA no longer makes exceptions.
Dec 20, 2018, 2:21 pm
#83
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
Although AA may know that person who ultimately controls the multi-million dollar travel budget, does AA know the (potentially large number of) people who may have the ear of that person? At least in my experience, the world is a smaller place than you would think, and it's often not the people to whom you say something directly—but the people those people listen/talk to—who end up coming back to bite you.
Of course, there probably has to be line drawn somewhere...
Of course, there probably has to be line drawn somewhere...
But .... AA draws the line at 100K EQM and soon to be 15K EQD. Probably because all the good reasons can be overwhelming. What is the serious medical issue -- what about the person who loses their job -- company restructures and cuts the travel budget -- person retires -- spouse is sick -- domestic violence
Dec 20, 2018, 2:23 pm
#84
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
OK. Here is a tabletop exercise. You are charged with writing a policy to deal with hardship exceptions to the FFP rules.
1. Injury or illness interrupting travel for a significant part of the year. How much of the year?
2. Longevity of status? Is it just at CP or EXP or does it include "climbing the ladder" from Gold? How many years? Is it 5, 10, or 15?
3. If it just the passenger? What if she can't travel for a year because she is home watching the kids because her spouse is hospitalized and can't do it?
4. What if it is a job loss? Does it matter if the job is lost because the passenger is a drunk or the employer went bankrupt?
5. What if it is a weather issue, e.g., you live in Puerto Rico and a Cat. 5 hurricane wipes out the economy?
I am in no way minimizing OP's circumstances. He suffered a serious and debilitating injury. The question is where he fits into the matrix. Why does there need to be a matrix? Because it is only fair to other customers and because the people who make these decisions can't sit around large conference rooms debating individual cases.
Now, the tough questions for the CFO and the head of marketing.
1. What do the above choices cost?
2. How will the above choices affect others who are spending in the program?
1. Injury or illness interrupting travel for a significant part of the year. How much of the year?
2. Longevity of status? Is it just at CP or EXP or does it include "climbing the ladder" from Gold? How many years? Is it 5, 10, or 15?
3. If it just the passenger? What if she can't travel for a year because she is home watching the kids because her spouse is hospitalized and can't do it?
4. What if it is a job loss? Does it matter if the job is lost because the passenger is a drunk or the employer went bankrupt?
5. What if it is a weather issue, e.g., you live in Puerto Rico and a Cat. 5 hurricane wipes out the economy?
I am in no way minimizing OP's circumstances. He suffered a serious and debilitating injury. The question is where he fits into the matrix. Why does there need to be a matrix? Because it is only fair to other customers and because the people who make these decisions can't sit around large conference rooms debating individual cases.
Now, the tough questions for the CFO and the head of marketing.
1. What do the above choices cost?
2. How will the above choices affect others who are spending in the program?
Now, whether an exception can be made for this particular policy in this particular case is a different question. Maybe, maybe not. It's definitely worth asking, though, and I think it's worth escalating if you don't get the answer you want.
Dec 20, 2018, 2:41 pm
#85
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: AY+ Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 2,846
So I think an EXP who deploys to Afghanistan for a year should be able to keep his/her EXP status. I also think someone who is a 19 year EXP and has a serious medical issue (back surgery/cancer) out to keep it. Maybe a new mom who takes leave and doesn't travel for a while. The list of good reasons we all think are good reasons is pretty endless.
But .... AA draws the line at 100K EQM and soon to be 15K EQD. Probably because all the good reasons can be overwhelming. What is the serious medical issue -- what about the person who loses their job -- company restructures and cuts the travel budget -- person retires -- spouse is sick -- domestic violence
But .... AA draws the line at 100K EQM and soon to be 15K EQD. Probably because all the good reasons can be overwhelming. What is the serious medical issue -- what about the person who loses their job -- company restructures and cuts the travel budget -- person retires -- spouse is sick -- domestic violence
Dec 20, 2018, 2:48 pm
#86
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: AY+ Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 2,846
This is not about policy. It's a negotiation. Just because you're not entitled to something under the policy doesn't mean that you can't get it. Exceptions to policy are made all the time. If you limit yourself to exactly what you are entitled to and nothing more, you are missing out.
Now, whether an exception can be made for this particular policy in this particular case is a different question. Maybe, maybe not. It's definitely worth asking, though, and I think it's worth escalating if you don't get the answer you want.
Now, whether an exception can be made for this particular policy in this particular case is a different question. Maybe, maybe not. It's definitely worth asking, though, and I think it's worth escalating if you don't get the answer you want.
Dec 20, 2018, 4:46 pm
#87
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
It's all metrics. These are not decisions made on an individualized basis, but rather for categories of travelers who meet certain metrics. It is based on many more data points than any one here could put together and is right more than it is wrong.
The reality is that most people won't jump ship because they can't jump ship. And if they do, that is breakage which is just part of doing business and made up for by incomings from DL & UA.
The reality is that most people won't jump ship because they can't jump ship. And if they do, that is breakage which is just part of doing business and made up for by incomings from DL & UA.
Dec 20, 2018, 9:10 pm
#88
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: DAL/DFW
Programs: Unloyal, disloyal
Posts: 84
As the boomer generation ages and becomes more and more frail, airlines will encounter this more and more. I think someone with two decades of loyalty should be given the benefit of the doubt and have their status extended. But the airlines, seeing the looming army of the walking wounded, may feel differently. There's a story about loyalty in there somewhere.
The only way to win is to book the lowest fare. It's a race to the bottom that was started by the airlines, not the passengers. I've been plat/gold on AA for years now - this will be my last year. From now on, it's fares all the way.
The only way to win is to book the lowest fare. It's a race to the bottom that was started by the airlines, not the passengers. I've been plat/gold on AA for years now - this will be my last year. From now on, it's fares all the way.
Dec 20, 2018, 9:58 pm
#89
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
Aren't CK invitations made on a case by case basis? Of course the masses are just lumped together in categories, but at the top end decisions are made on an individualized basis. Which is not to say that the decision will go in his favor; just that it's worth a shot.
Dec 20, 2018, 10:11 pm
#90
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW/DAL
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, AS MVPG, HH Diamond, NCL Platinum Plus, MSC Diamond
Posts: 21,422
Exactly. It is about getting you to fly more to reach a goal. There is nothing personal here, it is about the $$$.