YouGeeElWhy

My guess is Spirit because after a few US F experiences this year it seems similar in the product and clientele.

scnzzz

You earn them as you fly (4 for every 10k miles flown). And you can always buy them at 30 bucks a pop. Money well spent IMO...

psychoandy

IMO as a prior USGM, I think this is best. I only really got upgraded on domestic widebody flights (like CLT-MCO) on Saturdays, or on a random BOS-PHL. Forget any midcon length flight or longer, let alone BOS-PHX or CLT-PHX/LAX. Not to mention that it seemed like CP/plat/gold upgrades would fill the flights so last minute rev F couldn't even purchase a seat if they wanted to. Assuming more positive change to US domestic F from essentially just a bigger seat with free booze, to actual meal service and real/perceived AA quality, filling up F seats that noone bought at 4/7 day windows with CPs and Plats just doesn't work.

Current US elites can QQ all they want but i mean really, what alternatives are there? UA with it's Jeff McMuffin, PQDs, TODs, and rev based model? DL would be a good alternative but still with PQD...and skypesos.

Would be nice if 100 segment or 75k milers could be accomodated, like maybe bonus RDM, stickers, or even eVIPs.

Although i'm not sure of what to make of this for flights like BOS-CLT...I don't think this is an exception market, and I wouldn't waste stickers for a snack basket. Given the choice with stickers i'd rather route thru ORD or DFW.


http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...l#post11822043

learn it, live it, love it. US elites should definitely check out the AA forum.

scnzzz

As far as the hard product goes I'd actually compare Spirit (or RyanAir) to BA CE

Seriously though, I tend to disagree based on my few F experiences on US. And granted Envoy is not quite AA 773 J let alone F... as always YMMV.

veliger

US has many flights with 1st class under 500 miles. I fly almost entirely under 500 mile flights and most of them have FC. I usually go to BUF or ROC from PWM and fly almost exclusively on EMB 170/175's connecting in PHL or DCA.

jordyn

I think the reason that some of us think it's not a downgrade is because in practice AA elites don't get upgraded 100% of the time, even at the EXP level and especially on transcons, so scarcity of upgrades is an important consideration in thinking about the design of the program. I suspect that you'll find as the programs merge this will likely change on historically US flights too, but of course this assumption makes a big difference as to how you approach the problem.

While you're right that there's situations where everyone will value the upgrade similarly, there's plenty of situations where one person will value the upgrade more than others. For example, if I'm traveling with a companion, I'm going to care about an upgrade on a short or medium haul flight way more than if I'm flying alone; similarly, if I'm at the start or end of a big day of important meetings, I'll be less tolerant of even a short flight in coach. The use of stickers allows scarce upgrades to be allocated where there's some more desire in some situations.

Similarly, I don't think you should just dismiss out of hand the reasons why AA fliers are explaining why they prefer, e.g. stickers vs. upgrades. We can do math too and understand that, all things being equal, free is better than paid. So the fact that at least some people are saying that they prefer the system where you sometimes have to pay should tell you that there's more to the story than just being forced to pay for something that used to be free.

IADCAflyer

I don't see why a lot of folks are complaining. Does anyone thing that free upgrades for all was really going to continue? Really?

If you want the F class experience, you can pay the minimal fee needed to upgrade. Last AA upgrade for me was DCA-ORD which provided a nice breakfast and a drinky? Worth $60. For me it was. YMMV.

Be glad that they're not going to PQDs like United. Then, lots of folks here would have plenty to b!tch about!

Global321

I don't get that comment at all. While I assume you were intentionally exaggerating your experiences in US first vs Spirit coach, it still seems like a bit of a stretch.

I have flown UA/US/AA/DL in F for a while now. They are all very very similar.

I think last year's US F product was very similar to the pre-US AA. (I have not flow US much this year.)

As for the 'clientele' comment, it is just silly to imply that people in US First are somehow a lesser class of people than people in AA First.

fastflyer

The check box is always there (even for EXPs who must remember to check the box even though the upgrades are complimentary), and the request can be submitted with or without stickers in your account. If the upgrade clears, you can either buy stickers online/ app/ mobile into your account. Or you can wait until check-in and buy the stickers at the kiosk.

If you buy them in-person from an agent (ticketing, club), they cost $5 more than if you buy them online or at a kiosk.

If you do a lot of international or domestic premium or last-minute, full-fare coach travel, you will probably never run out of stickers. Why? Because Y and B fares do not require stickers and international flights are not eligible for stickers. And if you're buying first class, stickers are moot. AND you continue to earn stickers on all travel, whether stickers are redeemed or not.

For flyers who book lots of domestic, discounted coach fares, the stickers allow AA to monetize the first class cabin somewhat.

I understand this is new to many US flyers, but it is really not unreasonable to expect some kind of copayment for consistent upgrades.

djibouti

It's just a 3rd track/counter. You can qualify on segments (EQS), points (EQP) or miles (EQM). Unlike other programs there are no bonus EQM for class of service, but if you fly only high-fare coach, or business and first class fares, you get 1.5 EQP per mile flown and will qualify in 66,667 miles. But if you fly cheap coach tickets you only get 0.5 EQP per mile.

Example:
You've flown 99,000 miles on cheapo fares, you have:
99,000 EQM
49,500 EQP

Now you fly a 700 mile flight in paid F which gets you:
700 EQM
1,050 EQP

Your total becomes:

99,700 EQM
50,550 EQP

As a result you remain Platinum.

ubernostrum

You still don't get it.

For a US Platinum this is a devaluation of such an extent that if it had happened to, say, AA Plat instead, this forum would literally be camped outside Doug Parker's house with pitchforks and torches.

And yet because it only affects those "freeloaders" (that's the term I kept seeing used from AA folk) on US, well, who cares?

DisAAdvantage is an utter crock of manure for people who had their status from US, and especially for US Platinums (who aren't exactly a bunch of cheap leisure flyers, y'know? 75k PQM/year, or more as in my case, is some significant cash money in the airline's pockets). Y'all need to understand that, and accept that, and accept that just as AA people consistently sneered at the US program and FFs over the past year, now US folk are going to hate the living guts of anyone who tries to spin this as not so bad.

If this is how it's going to be, the "new AA" is going to need to make some serious concessions in recognition of that devaluation. Since I would, as a US Plat, have had a rather high upgrade rate for free, I would hope new AA showers stickers from heaven on the US Plats to give them at least an equivalent experience in 2015; then I can rationally figure out if it's worth trying to get to EXP for 2016 in order to have actual benefits from the program, or if I'm just going to stop at 50k and then get basic status somewhere else (or even just jump ship entirely -- I've got enough miles stored up to go somewhere nice in J as an empty-the-account mic-drop).

Called shot: within two years, AA lifetime benefits get completely revoked and all of you who relied on that have to actually start grinding for miles/segments again. And those of us who had US status will be waiting to spin it as a wonderful change you should embrace, because it'll pay the upkeep cost of those rattling junkheaps and sardine cans AA likes to fly, thus ensuring you have a "premium" -- as in name-brand duct tape holding the armrest on your MD-80 seat -- experience.

jlb3

As a US Silver based out of DCA, I think this is a good move. I never get upgraded for free, so having access to the 500-mile stickers is a plus. I also fly under 500 miles quite a bit, so happy I still get a possible free upgrade there. Most of everything else seems to stay the same for me. Overall, pretty happy!

Global321

This is a great point. Even as a 1K and Chairman and EXP, I don't get upgraded all the time - probably about 90%. (I am sitting at JFK right now, #1 on the upgrade list with 1 seat left.) And as you mention, sometimes I really want it, while other times 'it would be nice'.

The one group I can see being really not happy are the US Platinum. I was really surprised AA did not keep/add this level.

DenverBrian

That'll get much more problematic as the Mad Dogs retire.

869

How much incremental revenue could Doug have generated this quarter by adding a 4th tier at 125k or some other higher level? Would have been a massive rush to qualify!