Travailen

Oh, and as for the original question. IMO, J seats are fine, but have three major faults -- first, the slant issue; second, they are lumpy in many of the wrong places and it can me hard to find a comfortable position (especially if you sleep on your side); and, third, there is a privacy/space issue -- you are likely next to someone unless you sit in D or G with no one in E (which would be my suggestion if you can swing it) -- if you are on the window you are trapped, and if you are on an aisle, you are prone to be disturbed by your window mate. The privacy screens are okay, but for my money, I like my own undisturbed space -- and that means First.

F is not much better on seat comfort, btw. It is flat, but lumpy as well. They really need to intro a feather bed or matress cover -- something. Be that as it may, the real benefit IMO with F is the privacy.

Hope that helps.

AAJetMan

CX's mattress has the cute little slots for the seat belt to feed through. ^ Quite comfy too.

Travailen

Yeah? hadn't noticed that. It does seem like a no-brainer. A number of airlines do it already, and I would gladly surrender the 'AAmenity Kit' offered in F in exchange for a more restful sleep. Like the seat belt idea...they should just have sleeping bags and zip us in to our seats!

ijgordon

Well, your first two concerns seem somewhat specific to AA (though not unique to AA), but your third concern seems to be more a general commentary on Business Class. Business class in general seems less about "lots of space" and more about finding ways to squeeze the maximum number of sleep-conductive seats in a fixed area. Hence almost every J seat out there has some sort of compromise on space to get a full flat or near-flat position.

I think the majority of J seats out there are also not particularly private, with the notable exception being the herringbone layouts (VS, CX, AC, NZ, some DL), the SQ new J window seats and some BA seats. And many of those don't have F anyway.

So while I of course agree with you that space/privacy is much better in F than J, this is more a general statement than something that specific to AA.

BLG

Absolutely true. The secret -- and don't tell anyone -- is to snag an extra duvet from an unused seat, and use it as a mattress. I have to give credit where credit is due -- Mrs. BLG figured that one out and I must say it improves the bed dramatically. Of course this adaptation requires something less than a full cabin, but that's usually the case in my experience.

toporion

Is it ok if I change up the original question a little? I haven't found a thread on this topic -- though it might be there somewhere.

Instead of asking whether to spend the extra miles for an award-F over J, I am wondering about using miles for an award in First or paying for a coach ticket and using my SWUs to upgrade to J. In either case, the trip would be from DFW to Europe (London or Germany).

I am in a similar situation to the OP in that my wife has never flown Internationally and neither of us have flown Business or First internationally. I do all my flying domestically and usually in an MD-80 or 757. I have been saving up miles to get two First-class award tickets to Europe in the 777 from DFW. But now that I just earned SWUs as an EXP, I am considering purchasing coach tickets and using the SWUs to upgrade to J instead.

I would prefer to use miles and save the $$$, but I won't be able to use the SWUs in my normal flying. So this seems like the only way to use the SWUs, which I have heard many say are so valuable.

laperk1028

Interesting comments by all. I'm paying for tickets from DFW to Narita (Tokyo) in May 2010 and the cost difference between F and Coach is nearly $10,000 !! I can't believe it is worth $10,000 more to go First! I've been in first many times on AA to HNL and it's not that big of a deal to HNL.

stheller

I believe that "First Class" travel from DFW to HNL would be domestic "First Class", which is a far cry from international First Class, or even international Business Class. Not that I would pay $10,000 more to go in First Class, but I think you are comparing apples and oranges.

Of course, if DFW-HNL is considered "international" in the weird AA geography, I may be completely wrong.

aamilesslave

While true for equipment (and I think even the crew), it is certainly not so for flight service and amenities. While that may mean something in the forward cabin, it is much less noticable in the back these days.

AGSF

First class from DFW to HNL is essentially the same hard-product wise as DFW to NRT, and the soft product (IMO) is not significantly better to NRT than to HNL (not that the soft product is bad to HNL).

The real reason for the price difference between DFW-HNL in first (business) and NRT or LHR in business is because HNL is primarily a leisure route where AA can't get as much for the same seat as they can for a flight to certain international destinations.

ijgordon

Absolutely untrue.

itchief

The first seat DFW to HNL is almost the same as the Business seat from DFW to NRT. The frist seat from DFW to NRT is not the same product as to HNL. Go to AA.com and look, you will only get the 767 dfw-hnl and only get the 777 dfw-nrt.

Travailen

toporion:

IMHO, I would not burn miles on F or J to Europe. If you have the SWUs to upgrade to J, use them -- fares to Europe (with a bit of advance purchase) are dirt cheap (e.g. you can fly ORD-FRA on a 763 for ~500 RT and similar prices are available to LHR on 763/777) -- you will get the miles, have the J-class experience (which, it sounds like you have not had thus far), and will retain your miles for a longer duration flight where the flatbed and other perks mights be ore meaningful.

I would save your miles for NRT or PVG on AA or use them for OW awards to other distant lands (like Cape Town via BA, or DPS via CX) -- point is, you can do alot more and get more bang for your miles on something more exotic than a TATL.

That's just my opinion, but if you earned these miles in S80s, J class on a 763 or 777 to Europe will seem like heaven, and more than this, you deserve a true splurge with your miles.

In any event, hope you have a wonderful trip.

360guy

I will be flying DFW-EZE next month and was wondering if there is a big difference between First Class and Business seats on a 777 aircraft.

vasantn

Yes. F has the true lie-flat suites with 1-2-1 seating. J has the lie-flat-at-an-angle NGBC seats with 2-3-2 seating.