Indelaware

CLE, as others have pointed out is the obvious example. However, there are others too. One needs to consider the many hubs which have been closed by the many airlines which no longer exists. And it is a tough call, depending upon how one defines "dehubbed" and "hub". I'd suggest that in addition to CLE, the strongest arguments can be made for MCI (XY in place of US & EA which themselves were in place of TW) and PHX (HP in place of RW).

Here is a partial, but more complete, list of former hubs (and some former focus cities too):

Former hubs

Northeast:
ACY American International Airlines
BGR FinnAir
BWI Piedmont/US Air
BOS Braniff
EWR Braniff~
EWR People Express
IAD Braniff
IAD Eastern
IAD Trump Shuttle
IAD New York Air
JFK Eastern Airlines
JFK TWA
LGA Eastern Airlines
PHL Altair
PHL Eastern
PHL Midway
MDT Henson
SYR Empire
TTN Eastwind

Southeast:
ATL Eastern
ATL TWA
BNA American
CLT Eastern Airlines
GSO Continental
GSO Eastwind
MEM Southern/Republic/Northwest/Delta
MCO Eastern
MIA Air Florida
MIA Braniff
MIA Eastern
MIA Fine Air
MIA Iberia
MIA National/Pan Am
MIA United
MCO Braniff (the second one)
MCO Eastern~
RDU American
RDU Midway
SJU American
SJU Eastern
SJU TWA
TPA Eastern~
TPA National

Southwest:
DAL Braniff
DFW Braniff
DFW Braniff (the second one)
DFW Delta
DFW Transtexas/Texas International
SAT United
MSY Northeastern International
MSY Pride

Midwest/Great Lakes:
BKL Wright Airlines
CLE Continental/United
CLE United
CLE US Air
CMH America West
CMH Skybus
CHM TWA
DAY Piedmont/US Air
IND ATA
IND Northwest/Delta
IND US Air
PIT TWA
PIT Wright Airlines
PIT US Air
MCI Braniff
MCI Braniff (the second one)
MCI Eastern
MCI TWA
MCI Vanguard
MDW ATA
MDW Midway Airlines
ORD Braniff~
ORD Delta
ORD Eastern~
ORD Northwest (closed prior to DL merger)
ORD TWA
STL Ozark/TWA/American
STL TWA/American

West
BFI Hughes Airwest
BOI Hughes Airwest
DEN Braniff~
DEN Frontier Airlines (first one)
DEN Continental Airlines (prior to PE merger)
DEN People Express
DEN TWA
DEN Western Airlines
DEN Western Pacific
PHX Bonanza/Hughes Airwest/Republic/Northwest
PHX US Air (prior to HP merger)
LAS Hughes Airwest
LAX Braniff
LAX Continental
LAX Hughes Airwest
LAX PSA/US Air
LGG Win Air
OMA Midwest
PDX Hughes Airwest
RNO RenoAir
SAN PSA/US Air
SEA Wien Air
SFO Hughes Airwest
SFO PSA/US Air
SJC RenoAir/American
SLC Hughes Airwest
SNA AirCal

Time traveller

It would be unwise for AA to downsize JFK and LAX, due to the premium passengers and international connections with OW partners. LAX is a major gateway to Asia/Pacific. Likewise ORD is an important airport for international connections. We know that airlines make most of their profit from paid international premium class passengers. This includes joint venture with OW partners.

As for other airports, DFW, PHX, MIA, PHL and CLT are all airports that are currently a monopoly. The value of MIA as a gateway to South/Latin America and their premium class passengers will make it an untouchable airport.

That leaves DFW, PHX, PHL and CLT. Can AA downgrade its fortress hub DFW? It would be like asking if DL would downgrade its operations at ATL.

If something has to give, it has to be at one or more of the current US hubs, namely PHX, PHL and CLT.

Indelaware

PHL is very secure. Not only is US#1 there, it is a key to TATL growth with JFK fully maxed out.

CLT likewise is very secure. It is the definition of a fortress. Its almost as if no other carrier exists there. Parker has been talking for domestic growth at CLT post-merger. There already has been TATL growth. And while MIA makes sense for traffic to South America, its geographic locale makes little sense for domestic connections unlike CLT.

PHX, despite your assertion, faces significant direct competition. WN is nearly the size of US there - and no RJs or props in their fleet. If US were to pull back there, where do they go? LAX is full. Moreover, if they did, WN becomes #1 at PHX and as PHX has huge O&D, I wouldn't be surprised to see WN increase local PHX fares resulting in profit which could be used elsewhere to take on US/AA.

MAH4546

JFK is anything but maxed out. Not only does AA have a very underutilized terminal, but it has been squatting on a ton of prime departure slots, and slots are really easy to get outside of 3-8pm.

LAX is, likewise, not maxed out in the long run, because AA will be acquiring an additional 8 gates between October 2014 and January 2016. Combined with the trading in of Eagle gates for mainline gates at the new Midfield Concourse in 2018/2019, AA will have the capacity to operate more than 300 daily flights to/from LAX by 2020.

CMK10

Indeed. Not to mention the slots they'll gain from US. They could always shave a JFK-CLT or JFK-PHX flight if they had to.

BoeingBoy

ORD has about twice or more west coast destinations. If you not going to one of a handful for larger cities you have to connect in PHL and PHX.

Jim

funsmpls

I have to say that I love PHX as a connection airport. I live in Minneapolis and travel to the West Cost a lot during the year. Unless it's monsoon season, I rarely have weather delays in Phoenix. And with the new food options in terminal 4, I like Phoenix. In the winter Denver, Chicago can have horrible weather…and DFW is good except when the ice storms show up or the summer storms….PHX is a great connection point and honestly, I've had very few delays in PHX. I hope AA keeps PHX.

cbn42

Just like CLE was secure because ORD is maxed out?

MEM used to be the definition of a fortress as well.

That alone makes me skeptical of any actual growth.

Really? To where?

CLT is going to make little sense for domestic connections, other than up and down the eastern seaboard, after DFW is added to the network.

CMK10

Wrong, it's also very helpful for the midwest and south. RDU-CLT-CLE, CMH-CLT-LIT etc.

IADCAflyer

We've been through this nonsense 43,668 times. CLT is not disappearing as a hub.

Comparisons to MEM or CLE or CVG or PIT or STL are absolutely irrelevant. All of the aforementioned hubs were within a short distance of another hub in the same airline system and/or served the same approximate geographic market.

CLT is neither of these.

Cost of enplanement; RJ expenses; current airport capacities; etc.

PWMTrav

And we've come full circle. Might as well lock up this thread, given that it started with CLT and PHL going away and me .....ing about PWM service to ORD.

DCdeacon

While the above must've been intended as facetious statements, but I'll take the bait anyway (despite, as others have said, this being hased out ad naseum here):

1. I don't think too many people ever said CLE was safe because ORD was "maxed out." CLE was a tiny hub (max of 13 or 14 million pax/year in it's busiest year, I think?) 300 miles from ORD, 400 miles from EWR, and 290 miles from IAD. Totally redundant. Which current US hub is that small and that close to one and/or multiple other AA/US hubs? None of them.

2. Memphis was an 11 million passenger/year fortress 330 miles from Delta's largest hub. Charlotte is a 45 million/year fortress 930 miles from American's largest hub. There's really no parallel.

3. Great logic and reasoning

4. Indelaware is referring to LIS, BCN, MAN, and BRU, which were added as seasonal TATL destinations this year from CLT.

5. This is another eyeroll. Let's stick the 80 million people who live in the Southeast on RJ's and fly them 1000 miles to DFW - the economics on that sound great! Who needs a cheap hub that's almost perfectly centered and at minimum 500 miles away from DFW, MIA, and ORD, anyway? That would make too much sense!

cbn42

None of my statements were intended as facetious.

The argument that CLE was safe because ORD was too crowded and subject to too many weather delays was made. I don't know how many people agreed with it, but I remember reading it in the UA forum. The point is that additional capacity can be absorbed by the network as a whole, it does not have to be "moved" to another hub.

True. My point was that just because a hub is a "fortress", it is not immune. Fortress hubs can and are shut down.

Actually, that wasn't as facetious as it may seem. When a company goes on the defensive and starts reassuring the public of something, it is often because there is some sort of problem.

Those were all announced prior to the merger. After the merger, the schedules were actually reduced due to poor demand, presumably because some of the passengers can now go through an AA or oneworld hub instead.

We've gone through that debate already, no point re-opening it.

ccengct

No way. Under your same logic, DL's long-gone hub at DFW should have captured most coast-to-coast DL flyers who had been connecting at ATL.

Remember, about 4.6% of the nation's population lives in North Carolina or South Carolina. That's the primary market for CLT.

PBIGuy

This month's USAirways Magazine has statistics on number of flights/destinations at all of the hubs.

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/pace..._june2014/#/12

CLT and DFW aren't as far apart in terms of number of flights and destinations as some people make them out to be.