Miles "with no expiration" to be converted to normal miles, with 25% bonus Nov 1 2012
Jul 14, 2012, 10:43 am
#76
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: west of DFW airport
Programs: AA LT Gold 1.9 MM flying my way to LT PLAT
Posts: 11,074
I'm sure my 683 miles will RIP.
This is a big dust up over nothing for most of us.
This is a big dust up over nothing for most of us.
Jul 14, 2012, 11:01 am
#77
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Florida and Bangkok
Posts: 394
Just posted downloadable scans of the old award chart (from the back of my July 1987 statement) in the other thread that's been revived.
Maybe the two threads should be merged?
Maybe the two threads should be merged?
Jul 14, 2012, 12:20 pm
#78
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Santa Monica and Siena
Programs: 10 MM + 2013, AA EXP,Lifetime AC ,Crown Room, Red Carpet,USAIR CLUB ,Hertz Plat, Hilton Dia, GS +++
Posts: 455
As someone now with under 100,000 old miles and have used them over the years I know this is a major devaluation even with the "bonus". For an early decision in bk to the heart of the long time loyal customer it's fasten you seat belt time. IMO a bean counter move that wouldn't have taken much to recognize the real value and accomplish their goal of one set of miles.
What does this do for them besides create one pool of miles to track. There are probably thousands x thousands of dormant accounts who have long past earned miles. This allows them in one fell swoop, 18 months past the Nov 2012 date to clean up their miles list.
Regarding the 25% bonus - this is meaningful for those who don't have enough miles for any award. For those with miles - IMO AA could have made an attempt to value the 'bonus' with what could have been done with them. system wides and domestic upgrades far better then miles in most cases. The % off fares - that's one that can be very meaningful.
What does this do for them besides create one pool of miles to track. There are probably thousands x thousands of dormant accounts who have long past earned miles. This allows them in one fell swoop, 18 months past the Nov 2012 date to clean up their miles list.
Regarding the 25% bonus - this is meaningful for those who don't have enough miles for any award. For those with miles - IMO AA could have made an attempt to value the 'bonus' with what could have been done with them. system wides and domestic upgrades far better then miles in most cases. The % off fares - that's one that can be very meaningful.
Last edited by Cannonball Run; Jul 15, 2012 at 10:37 pm Reason: Thought about this 24 hours later...
Jul 14, 2012, 12:43 pm
#79
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Toronto
Programs: AA Platinium, Hilton Diamond, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 30
AA terms and conditions for use of OLD Miles
There is a post from many years ago which listed the old awards. In lieu of sending you the link, I will just post them here:
30A. Two r/t upgrades, domestic 49-states. Good for Premium first from any fare.
40A. 75% discount on any AA ticket. Buy an F fare and accrue F miles, if it works out to less than the price you'd pay for cheap coach+stickers.
50B. Free ticket in First (incl. Premium class), PLUS a free r/t companion upgrade to First from any fare.
60I. Two free tickets (off-peak) in Coach to Europe.
70D. Free companion ticket in Business to Tokyo.
75A. Two Premium tickets, domestic 48-state.
80D. Free companion ticket in First to Tokyo.
90B. Free companion ticket in First to Europe.
90G. Free Coach tickets for two to Europe-- high season.
90J. Free Biz class ticket to Europe.
120B. Free Biz tickets for two to Europe.
125G. Free Biz class tickets for two to Tokyo (low season only, 150D for high season).
150E. Free First class tickets for two to Tokyo (low season only, 175G for high season).
175A. Free First class tickets for two to Europe.
30A. Two r/t upgrades, domestic 49-states. Good for Premium first from any fare.
40A. 75% discount on any AA ticket. Buy an F fare and accrue F miles, if it works out to less than the price you'd pay for cheap coach+stickers.
50B. Free ticket in First (incl. Premium class), PLUS a free r/t companion upgrade to First from any fare.
60I. Two free tickets (off-peak) in Coach to Europe.
70D. Free companion ticket in Business to Tokyo.
75A. Two Premium tickets, domestic 48-state.
80D. Free companion ticket in First to Tokyo.
90B. Free companion ticket in First to Europe.
90G. Free Coach tickets for two to Europe-- high season.
90J. Free Biz class ticket to Europe.
120B. Free Biz tickets for two to Europe.
125G. Free Biz class tickets for two to Tokyo (low season only, 150D for high season).
150E. Free First class tickets for two to Tokyo (low season only, 175G for high season).
175A. Free First class tickets for two to Europe.
I am investigating with AA up the VP of Consumer Relations that some of the economy upgrade tickets now only apply to Y or B fares (30A award). I used them in 2000 and that restriction did NOT apply. Sometime there must of been an AA letter to customers stating OLD mile terms have changed
anyone one remember on upgrade structure with co-pays and some awards NOE only apply to FULL fare economy????
Jul 14, 2012, 12:57 pm
#80
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Toronto
Programs: AA Platinium, Hilton Diamond, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 30
Current old Mile Upgrade T&C
Not many people have or even know or care about "old miles". I still have 140k and have booked many Europe trips for 40k (award code 40E)for an upgrade to Business from ANY economy published fare WITHOUt a $700 copay so now they are taking away a promise that they will never expire and the ability to use the old award schedule. I know it is old but a promise in writing from then VP, Mike Gunn. should still be honored. It seems integrity is no longer a word in American's vocabulary. It may be that the new person running AAdvantage just got run over by the bean counters -- I can't believe one of her first official acts would be to jab charter members of AAdvantage in the eye with a stick. This is just another example of a once proud airline fading away and "majoring on the minors" and further self destructing. I hope they will reconsider this latest action and stop alienating charter members like me who joined AAdvantage on Day 1 in 1981. We are small in number but still major influencers. I accrued almost 7 million miles which is not that much compared to some of the double digit million flyers I have heard of. I fail to see how this action streamlines the program as they claim. What do they think we are --kindergartners?
AA --- restore the old miles program just like you did when you changed the original old miles program from ---(40E) upgrade from any fare --- to whoops, we didn't mean those low fares --- back to -- upgrade from any fare --- after receiving pressure to keep your word.
AA --- restore the old miles program just like you did when you changed the original old miles program from ---(40E) upgrade from any fare --- to whoops, we didn't mean those low fares --- back to -- upgrade from any fare --- after receiving pressure to keep your word.
Bill,
I haven't used that old mile award 40E but is the economy upgrade (RT) on any economy fare basis. My 30A upgrade to first (domestic) only now applies to Y class which was NOT the case the last time I used the 30A award in 2000. I have sent in the concern to AA management.
Some of the contributors to FlyerTalk don't have an appreciation that people who joined AAdvantage in 1981 and continued to fly and then got elevated to gold status by "invitation" which really had status in the early '80s don't realize that old mile structure is a perk to people like us to continued to fly on AA through out the years 30+ years. Is valuable.
Jul 14, 2012, 1:12 pm
#81
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,434
Nope. When AA promised the miles wouldn't expire they bound themselves to that. It's an enforceable contract between you and them (offer, acceptance and compensation). That overrides the more general right they reserved to make changes. So while they might have the right to change other parts of the agreement, they can't change this.
If I recall correctly, a credit card company won a rather egregious version of this years ago, in which they promised stuff in the headline and took it back in the rest of the terms.
Jul 14, 2012, 2:20 pm
#82
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SJC
Programs: AA EXP, BA Silver, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton diamond, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 33,535
Cheers.
Jul 14, 2012, 2:33 pm
#83
Join Date: Aug 2003
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 466
Bill.... if the 30A upgrade award, NOW only applies to Y class.... how is it different than the old 10A upgrade award?
Jul 14, 2012, 3:15 pm
#84
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold but PlatPro thanks to LPs
Posts: 4,439
Here's something interesting. Remember the "lifetime" AAirpasses that were cancelled? (Rothstein and Vroom threads)
According to the way I read Vroom's contract, AA actually valued the "lifetime" AAirpass at 200 months, or 16 years 8 months.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18542033-post161.html
After 200 months, if the AAirpass was cancelled, AA owned the pass holders nothing for the residual value of the AAirpass.
Now we are discussing old miles that have been sitting around in peoples' accounts for 23 years, way past the 16y8m of a "lifetime" AAirpass. It is entirely consistent that AA would change the conditions of these miles. They are even offering some limited compensation in the form of the 25% bonus.
It is my opinion that those who have been hoarding these old miles for the past 23 years have had ample opportunity to cash them in using the old award chart.
If you are really that upset about it, then you have the option of cashing in your old miles between now and 11/1/2012 before they get blended in to the expiring miles pot. I said it upthread and will say it again. Use it or lose it.
According to the way I read Vroom's contract, AA actually valued the "lifetime" AAirpass at 200 months, or 16 years 8 months.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18542033-post161.html
After 200 months, if the AAirpass was cancelled, AA owned the pass holders nothing for the residual value of the AAirpass.
Now we are discussing old miles that have been sitting around in peoples' accounts for 23 years, way past the 16y8m of a "lifetime" AAirpass. It is entirely consistent that AA would change the conditions of these miles. They are even offering some limited compensation in the form of the 25% bonus.
It is my opinion that those who have been hoarding these old miles for the past 23 years have had ample opportunity to cash them in using the old award chart.
If you are really that upset about it, then you have the option of cashing in your old miles between now and 11/1/2012 before they get blended in to the expiring miles pot. I said it upthread and will say it again. Use it or lose it.
Jul 14, 2012, 3:20 pm
#85
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold but PlatPro thanks to LPs
Posts: 4,439
False analogy. You don't own the miles. AA owns the miles in an account with your name on it, and they can zero out the account any time.
Jul 14, 2012, 3:39 pm
#86
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Toronto
Programs: AA Platinium, Hilton Diamond, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 30
Here is the deal. AA just has told me they reduced the value of 30A to state that 30A is valid for 2 people RT in BUSINESS with any fare basis. As of 2000 it was not the case. So there had to be an AA change to the rules sometime between 2000-2012. I read my Mike Gunn letter and the Regular Advantage milage term and its states ALL economy tickets... so AA again has superceeded the rules and replace the ALL with Y/B class only.. (how many people actually use those fare basis from LAX/JFK there are instant upgrades to business less than full Y.
I am waiting for my response from AA VP of Consumers relation
Jul 14, 2012, 5:27 pm
#87
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: East Hampton/Dorado Beach
Posts: 591
I think the 75A award allows travel to Hawaii.
That has been my favorite award.
That has been my favorite award.
Jul 14, 2012, 5:53 pm
#88
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Coppell, Texas
Posts: 1,014
To me it seems that they were rather generous when they suspended the expiry of "old" miles in that they allowed choosing of which miles to use rather than automatically using the old miles
If they had a get out that they reserved right to make changes, then there is ,imo, nothing dishonest and they have given 23 years to use these miles so hardly a quick backflip
If they had a get out that they reserved right to make changes, then there is ,imo, nothing dishonest and they have given 23 years to use these miles so hardly a quick backflip
I always used my miles between new and old, the program said they will not expire. How would you like your employer at retirement to yank the matching dollars in your 401K? Had I know this, I would have brought down my million old miles. I am loosing the equivelant of 732,000 miles. I earned my old miles before all the credit card etc bonuses, mine were earned flying. I had 26 RT First Class Tickets to Hawaii, with the 25% bonus added to my account I will have 16 RT First Class tickets, I just had 10 RT tickets to Hawaii stolen! they should have offered maybe a 75 % bonus. The ridiculous thing is most people have 2,000 to 11,000 old miles, basically worthless, so they get a 25% bonus. Those of us with more, we just got @#$%^&
Jul 14, 2012, 5:59 pm
#89
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SJC
Programs: AA EXP, BA Silver, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton diamond, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 33,535
Jul 14, 2012, 6:34 pm
#90
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
Absent a bankruptcy filing, AA has no legal right to ever cancel the old miles, convert them to something else involuntarily or to terminate the old award chart. But AA did file for bankruptcy protection.
Given that AA is currently in Ch 11, and could cancel the entire AAdvantage program if it decided to do so, there's very little anyone can do to challenge this decision by AA. As I earlier posted, however, I'll bet that someone files an attempted class action suit within a week.