uszkanni

It sounds like they're just saying that as of Nov 1 you won't be able to use the old program that was in effect for non-expiring miles and will have to use whatever program is current as of that date.

That being said, I fully expect that AA will revamp their award structure at some point - either as a result of their restructuring or as part of a merger. And you can be sure that the restructuring won't favor those of us who like to redeem for TPAC/TATL F awards.

Dave Noble

To me it seems that they were rather generous when they suspended the expiry of "old" miles in that they allowed choosing of which miles to use rather than automatically using the old miles

If they had a get out that they reserved right to make changes, then there is ,imo, nothing dishonest and they have given 23 years to use these miles so hardly a quick backflip

worldtraveler19

I have 3126 old miles-- so I get a whooping 781.5 (I assume 782) bonus miles.

Not enough for the old award structure-- I wonder if the bonus miles would also count toward this years EQMs? LOL! (highly unlikely!)

m44

There is NOTHING reasonable about that!

The only reason for such policy is to invalidate your hard earned miles and loyalty as soon as possible. Why 18 months - why not 30 days? They like to take our money but they do not like to work for it. They are doing this before being sold to somebody equally loyalty averse and to use their bankrupt status. Sure go ahead <redacted> me again.

m44

Since when honoring the agreement is "generous".
Reserving the right to make unilateral changes by itself is dishonest. Executing on it is doubly so.
In most non-English law countries such terms are declared abusive and unenforceable. In English law it takes someone with brains, like Judge Green, to see that.

Dave Noble

Where I see they went wrong was not ensuring that oldest miles were always used

There is nothing abusive about being entitled to make changes to terms of a programme and they allowed 23 years for people to use up their old miles in the end

scubadu

Oh good grief, does this forum always require such high horse, melodrama for every little thing?!

"<redacted> me again" indeed, you've only had TWENTY THREE FREAKIN' YEARS to figure out how you were going to use these miles. Do you need another 23?

Regards

brp

Dude, less caffeine. Seriously.

Given that these programs, by their nature, can change. Given things that they have, can and will do, this seem pretty minor. That's why it seems reasonable. And, as Dave points out, they could simply have used those miles first for redemption, and they would be gone.

Now, when I wrote that, I wasn't aware of the court order (and don't know about the details). In light of that, it does seem a little less reasonable. But not for any of the ranting reasons you cite. Those make no sense.

Cheers.

Pickles

I have a whopping 429. Ho hum.

JDiver

Off-topic questions about awards on AA and oneworld partners have moved to AA and Partner Airline Award info, rules (NOT for oneworld Explorer Awards) thread to keep this thread on topic.

Thank you,

JDiver, Moderator

CanadaAAguy

There has been alot healthy sometimes emotional dialogue on the announcement of the retiring of never expiring miles AND the OLD award structure.

For me, Yeah i have alot of miles under the old program and never wanted to touch them because of I wanted to save them for a rainy day of using the old award structure but I have been getting by using the new award structure too.

My guesses for the changes

1. Put AA program in line with other airline's program (AA was probably more generous with some rules than other). E.g., non elites could change a ticketed award unlimited and within 21 days with no fee. that was changed recently.

2. There might have been a liability on their balance sheet having never expiring miles and they wanted to get rid of that

3. It will make it easier to merge frequent flier program if they merge with another airline (I am not saying that is with US Airways but in gereral).

As pointed out earlier some other carriers OW frequent flier carry a high taxes on free flights and the US including AA have resisted.

So before Nov I will take a transcon flight with my partner from jfk to LAX on a 3 class service aircraft and find the cheapest RT ticket on a meal service and use the 30A. award.

scubadu

So, serious question, if a "rainy day" hasn't presented itself to people in a 23 year period, when do you suppose the storm will arrive?

This just seems like typical FT obsessive miles hoarding to me...

Regards

billboos

Not many people have or even know or care about "old miles". I still have 140k and have booked many Europe trips for 40k (award code 40E)for an upgrade to Business from ANY economy published fare WITHOUt a $700 copay so now they are taking away a promise that they will never expire and the ability to use the old award schedule. I know it is old but a promise in writing from then VP, Mike Gunn. should still be honored. It seems integrity is no longer a word in American's vocabulary. It may be that the new person running AAdvantage just got run over by the bean counters -- I can't believe one of her first official acts would be to jab charter members of AAdvantage in the eye with a stick. This is just another example of a once proud airline fading away and "majoring on the minors" and further self destructing. I hope they will reconsider this latest action and stop alienating charter members like me who joined AAdvantage on Day 1 in 1981. We are small in number but still major influencers. I accrued almost 7 million miles which is not that much compared to some of the double digit million flyers I have heard of. I fail to see how this action streamlines the program as they claim. What do they think we are --kindergartners?

AA --- restore the old miles program just like you did when you changed the original old miles program from ---(40E) upgrade from any fare --- to whoops, we didn't mean those low fares --- back to -- upgrade from any fare --- after receiving pressure to keep your word.

sbedelman

Nope. When AA promised the miles wouldn't expire they bound themselves to that. It's an enforceable contract between you and them (offer, acceptance and compensation). That overrides the more general right they reserved to make changes. So while they might have the right to change other parts of the agreement, they can't change this.

That said what makes this more complicated is that AA's parent is in bankruptcy, so you can't sue them without permission of the court. It's possible that this might be granted or one could sue, the case would be put on hold if and until they exited bankruptcy and then it could continue.

I think this may be the reason for the timing of this. It's still a very dumb move. The amount of money AA will save can't possibly compare to what they are going to lose in trust and prestige particularly among their longest standing customers.

I'm a lifetime million miler. I don't fly much anymore but if I were just starting out I'd give a lot of thought as to whether or not I'd do that flying on AA. There is no question they are breaching their agreement and organizations that feel it's Ok to do that once are likely to do so again. It tells you something about their culture.

So each of you without old miles think about what all that money and flying you are planning on doing with AA, what it is supposed to gain you in return and if you might act differently now if you thought the company was likely to welch on the deal down the road.

I certainly would have.

sbedelman

When you buy a house you are supposed to own it in perpetuity. If the owners comes back after 23 years and demands his house back is that reasonable or an attempt to breach the agreement?

AA agreed these miles would not be subject to expiration. They explicitly agreed we could use them agains the old chart, which is far more generous that the new one. Presumably they made this offer because they believed it would gain them more business that they otherwise would have obtained. Now, having reaped the benefits of the deal they are unwilling to make good on their side of the bargain.

There is no practical reason they can't honor the agreement. That I wish them to do so is not only legally right it's nothing less than completely reasonable.

I should have the right to use those miles against the old chart just as you should have the right to use your house. You paid for it. I paid for the right to use the miles as agreed by virtue of the continued (and substantial) business I did with AA subsequent to the offer 23 years ago.

A bargain is a bargain and should be honored except if there are extenuating circumstances and not just because one party isn't in the mood to do so. That this bargain doesn't seem all that important should not be a factor (although in fact thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars maybe be at stake for some individuals). If individuals and companies feel that they don't have to honor what they agree to willy nilly then they will begin to do so and we will all suffer.

Knowing there are consequences to not living up to an agreement is the bedrock that makes our economy and hence our country tick (and why things are such a mess in places without the rule of law).

If one is willing to say that AA doesn't have to honor this agreement (which no one believes isn't valid) why not say they can take your money and then force you to pay more when you show up to fly or refuse to refund a fully refundable ticket?

The only difference is that in this case they think the can get away with it and that should not be the measure by which this is judged.