skylady

Skylady does not fly the 777, so is really torn on the issue. Those that have flown with me know that I would more than likely enjoy the extra amenities that I can bestow on my customers, but would never violate an agreement.

sts603

I appreciate the sentiment of enjoying extra amenities but the last part is what baffles most frequent fliers. We are the one's who pay your salary. And we know the choices people go through when booking air travel. There is a tangible connection between service and purchasing decisions. I flew Friday on an expensive H class personal ticket from JFK-LHR upgraded to J with a VIP. The service was dreadful - no pre-departure beverages, cold nuts, no linens, no bread basket passed (the other FA serving the other aisle did - when the pax across the aisle on my side asked, our FA brought bread to him and him only - immediately storming back to the galley), cold coffee was served with breakfast, trash was not collected before arrival and no pre-arrival service (sparkling water and mints) was provided. Next month when I have a paid Business ticket to LHR who do you think I'm going to fly? Yes, that's right BA. Sure, I'm not walking away from AA and will be happy to run through my VIPs on personal travel ticketed in discount coach. But the real profitable paid premium class tickets - I will, like many FTs on routes with competitive OneWorld offerings, will send F/J business elsewhere.

So I ask - first, why would you blindly stand by your union and oppose a change because it violates some probably ambiguous clause i

Second, even if you wanted to standby the agreement, why wouldn't you challenge the union to accept the change?

And three, why don't FAs, who want to insist on doing nothing more than their contract requires, not also insist that they and their colleague comply with every existing service guideline?

Rock Harders

This is truly unbelievable and unfortunately is becoming typical of the USA unionized worker. How could employees complain about providing a service that is needed to keep their company(and thus their jobs) competitive and relevant? Premium class passengers are the clearly the most profitable for the company yet the employees are not willingly doing everything in their power to satisfy and retain these customers. I expect this out of Aerolineas Argentinas but certainly not American Airlines.

DFW_Airwolf

This is yet another example of how BOTH the Union & Mgmt need to create a new product for themselves. Something like MEET & CONFER. They both need to understand that MGMT has to make changes, add service & products. And they cant spend a year or more negotiating the details of something simple like doing it like this is.

MGMT tried to be accomaditing when they introduced Onboard sales by offering commisions to the FA's. This was done to try & make a WIN/WIN situation. FA's had to do more, but were able to make more $$$. But they didnt like it.

It is the attitude of the Union that we wont do anything NEW without extensive negotiations first that has soured the process a bunch. That is why I think they need to embrace some kind of MEET & CONFER process where they accept these things with minimal attitude & interference and work to get the best deal for themselves out of the process as well.

Unions need to remember the old adage "You catch more fly's with Honey than you do with Vinegar."

C17PSGR

The vast majority of my flights are domestic. I'm about 95 percent on upgrades. There are sometimes FA's more focused on reading than service but that's really the exception on the domestic flights.

But, I have noticed the service in J on the JFK-LAX/SFO transcons is not generally not as good as the service in F on much shorter routes. The service in J on the JFK-LHR routes is generally worse than the service on the JFK-LAX/SFO routes. And, the worst service was in F on a JFK-LHR route (saw the FA twice -- although I did go to sleep).

I'll defer to the wonderful FA's on FT but it seems to me working DFW-ABQ or LGA-ORD and back is a lot harder than working long haul 777's. There's a lot of work that has to be done in a short period of time, you have to clean the cabin at every turn, the days are longer, and you have to work more days in a month. Yet, the service in F on those types of routes meets or exceeds my expectations 90 percent of the time.

It's not age or seniority. Many of those FA's are in their 50's or 60's (and older with some recalled TWA FA's) with a lot of seniority as AA hasn't hired anyone.

Service on the long haul routes seems easier to me. There are no turns, less rushing, no cleaning of cabin, only one take off and landing, and you work fewer days per month. Plus, its more prestigious and you get down time in interesting places. Does anyone know how many flights long haul crews work in a month? So, there's something about the long haul crews other than age or seniority that makes service not as good. My inclination is that its peer pressure by other FA's to not work so hard or do so much. Peer pressure can be negative or positive and in this case I think its negative.

sts603

I absolutely agree with you here. I've yet to have an exceptional JFK-LAX/SFO v/v flight. And my JFK-LHR flight Friday (see post #94) was the second-worst AA flight I've taken from an FA standpoint (the worst being RDU-DFW with a FA in F that I seriously was concerned about going postal - horrible scowl on his face - everything was slammed down on the tray table/center console). Mid-cons I'm happy to very happy 90% of the time. Take out LGA-ORD v/v (which probably accounts for a good number of my remaining mediocre service flights on AA) and that number exceeds 95%.

ijgordon

It isn't a restaurant either, so we shouldn't expect the FA to be a waiter then? You're okay with preparing and serving your own meal? Maybe they should just set up a buffet in the galley and the pax can line up. And then they can bring their own dirty dishes back when they're done.

I don't know the structure of the AA F mattress pad, but on Cathay it's actually somewhat complicated given the shape of the seat/bed and the seatbelt has to be properly threaded through an opening. It's clearly a safety issue that passengers should not be entrusted with. Only half-

emma dog

No... it's unsafe for passengers to line up on the airplane.

GB

This speaks volumes about the inept leadership of the FA Union and frankly many of the FAs themselves that feel they can do the absolute bare minimum "service" as if they are robotic and merely have to check off a list that they have completed their services and then give the impression you are asking for the world if you ask if they can hang up your jacket or another drink.

Bottom line, on long haul flights, they are already there and already being compensated. Give it a little effort and sincerity to provide genuine, personable hospitality. It takes no more effort and truly can help AA differentiate itself from the other legacy US carriers.

For the AA apologists in this forum, this news only cements the fact that many of the FAs and the union representing them have little or no interest in the needs of the customers.

Pucnit

Similar to skylady I am on the fence on this issue. I think the Union filed the grievance as a protection to its members continuing to operate under the expired CBA.

If the Union and its members accepts the change it is a slippery slop. What service level changes that they accept and don't accept might seem discretionary to a judge or arbiter when one day AA wants to make a big change and it points to all the accepted non-negotiated items.

Why I don't want to put words in skyladys mouth. It would the reason why I personally would support my union (if I was negotiating them on the management side ) because if I don't my other union members might not be there for me when something might not be covered for me.


All this being said... I don't mind (break or not) if the FA reads People or US Weekly in-between being attentive to the other flyers and myself in any class of service. We all have perqs of our jobs and this could be one of them for FAs. I'd be surprised if the F class FAs really mind offering the service. It just has to do with 1) the mistrust between the FA and management from the lack of a CBA and 2) legally protecting the limits of the continuing agreement to operate under the expired CBA.

While I agree with managements decision to add this to the responsibilities of the F class FAs without and adjustment to the operating agreement / CBA. I can see why the issue is being pressed by the FAs Union.

Clipper110A

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LOL..No, I think Air France does provide turndown service intl F longhaul...

And last time I was with AF in F, Christian Lacroix PJs...

dukesantos

I am far from a union sympathizer. Frankly, this little "Survey" form would be a distraction from providing a safe environment. (You can spin things any way you want.)

But, I have to admit that AA is trying to play with the big boys (LH, QR, VS, EK, etc). I know that the European unions are just as strong (and even backed-up by the government) as US unions. If you want to provide a real first class product, it cost's money. Money for supplies and labor. AA has Champagne Wishes on a Kool-Aid Budget.

So, AA, if you want people to take you seriously, be a good paymaster and hold people accountable for the high standards that they are paid for.

This will require a re-branding, to include cutting routes and increasing airfares. Instead of being the airline that can get anyone to anywhere in the world, be a strictly First Class airline focusing on high demand routes. You can't be everything to everyone.

But, hey, I guess that's MY dream.

sukn

Can you provide some information on the FA pay scales of these foreign airlines with Champagne services. Thanks.

Clipper110A

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Not clear on what you are getting at here either. Actually borderline offensive. NO ONE here seems to be speaking in these terms.

Turndown service is a standard amenity for F longhaul premuim passengers on most airlines.

That something this trivial should be elevated the way it has is sad and shows the state of affairs at AA. Takes two to tango, probably factors in both labor and mgmt there.

AA is in a commercial partnership with BA TransAtlantic.
Although everyone knows that AA F and BA F are in many ways not comparable, never have been, and likely never will be, one of the points of the ATI JV is an attempt at consistent and predictable travel experience, as they are hanigng the code on the flights.
BA does turndown service in F....they have no problem doing it, they are professional and see it not as an interruption to the drama of their own labor issues with BA management, but they have enough pride in themselves, their company and profession, to see it is a standard enhancement. I am thinking that the intent is that JV AA/BA F provide consistent services.

If anyone is going to seriously posit that dropping a flimsy mattress (on request apparently, not even offered like at other carriers ?) on maybe 16 seats and handing PJs to pax on a flight that by definition is at least over 8 hours long is some kind of undue work burden for "professional" flight attendants, then the AA f/as ability to do ANYTHING at all should be reviewed.

Union might be careful what it wishes for in terms of research. An independent, objective, anonymous, time-motion study in F on your typical AA long haul would likely find that the fas spend a lot of time sitting on their a$$es.

I have flown more than my share of AA premium LH, and see it all the time. They are often so raucous, you can hear that they are engaged in gossip, etc. In part, the nature of the length of flight, but probably also in part that there are unfortunately many who are burned out, bitter (for whatever reasons), and have a real sense that THEY are entitled to do whatever they want for whatever their real or imagined grievances against the company are. I can say this because I have been in cabins where the entire cabin hears them griping about it during boarding, etc...

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dukesantos

I lack documentation, but have friends that work for LH. Compensation is generous (by US standards) and work conditions are comfortable (LH crew's stay at the Four Season's on Michigan Avenue when in Chicago). This is accomplished by full domestic and international flights despite their high fares, which face stiff competition from a number of budget airlines.

LH has loyal customers due to their high standards of service as well as their generous Miles & More program (which makes the US FF programs look like a Ponzi scheme).

So, it's a vicious cycle of providing the customer what they want, charging an appropriate fee, and investing that money in modern equipment and sharp looking crews (despite their gruff tone).

I acknowledge that they have the benefit of great national labor laws (minimum 4 weeks vacation every year and up to 2 years of maternity leave). It does put US carriers at a disadvantage. They need to realize that they can't compete.