AA Expands NYC Service, Announces "Partnership" with JetBlue / B6 (consolidated)
Mar 31, 2010, 2:29 pm
#106
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Well, the current "partnership" on domestic routes is only for non-overlapping routes. I assume if they did get to a codeshare agreement, it would also be for non-overlapping routes.
So the question is whether you'd take two AA flights in F over one flight in B6's good coach product?
My time is too valuable to take a voluntary connection on a domestic flight. Fortunately, I can get most places I need to nonstop on either CO or AA, and B6 fills in the holes (like SLC
)
So the question is whether you'd take two AA flights in F over one flight in B6's good coach product?
My time is too valuable to take a voluntary connection on a domestic flight. Fortunately, I can get most places I need to nonstop on either CO or AA, and B6 fills in the holes (like SLC
)
Mar 31, 2010, 2:40 pm
#107
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RDU-BOS often goes out full yet they are still cutting 2x. Not saying full equals profitable but generally the DCA fares are far lower than BOS.
Mar 31, 2010, 2:41 pm
#108
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I honestly think that the best part of a potential codeshare agreement in the future would be for New Yorkers earning miles on B6 via flights to areas AA doesn't serve, such as BTV, PWM, ACK et al...
Those kind of flights are short enough for AA loyalists to take and not have to worry about upgrades.
Perhaps those who are not too concerned about F product longhaul would be able to fly direct JFK-OAK/SJC/BUR/LGB/SMF instead of simply to SFO/SAN/LAX and earn AAdv miles. Back in the day, we had direct JFK-OAK/SJC/LGB/SNA service on AA
Those kind of flights are short enough for AA loyalists to take and not have to worry about upgrades.
Perhaps those who are not too concerned about F product longhaul would be able to fly direct JFK-OAK/SJC/BUR/LGB/SMF instead of simply to SFO/SAN/LAX and earn AAdv miles. Back in the day, we had direct JFK-OAK/SJC/LGB/SNA service on AA
Last edited by demkr; Mar 31, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Mar 31, 2010, 2:59 pm
#109
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I think the best part of this news is that no one saw it coming before the announcement.
Give me hope for DEQM/DRDM starting tomorrow.
Give me hope for DEQM/DRDM starting tomorrow.
Mar 31, 2010, 3:18 pm
#110
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And good thing they didn't make the announcement tomorrow. Because no one on this board would have believed an AA-B6 tie-up being announced on April 1st.
Mar 31, 2010, 3:50 pm
#111
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I am following the speculation of some that a code share is in the future but I too doubt that. Even if it came to be, I still would take AA over B6, even with a connection, given AC access and the fact that if irregular ops occur I can go running to the AC for help or even the EXP line. B6, I'd stand in line or phone with hordes of Kettles.
As EXP, if given a choice of an AA versus B6 flight for the same route (if it was ever offered), I'd take AA because:
- With AA you can reach someone without B6's excessive telephone hold times. Since transitioning to their new res system B6 has some very long hold times.
- My AA flights seem to run on time more than my B6 flights.
- Lounge access.
- Priority security lines and boarding at JFK and other places.
- Upgrades.
Mar 31, 2010, 4:04 pm
#112
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Even if B6 didn't mention RDU, I suspect this is a prelude to American Eagle's dropping some RDU-JFK flights... especially given the other announcement that RDU-LGA will be upgraded to CR7s.
Mar 31, 2010, 4:14 pm
#113
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A codeshare is in the works, and like Alaska Airlines, it will likely be a selective codeshare created to benefit the two airlines the most, while limiting passenger/revenue bleed. So absolutely expect the AA* code on JFK-PWM or the B6* code on STL-JFK, but we likely won't see them codesharing on BOS-LAX or FLL-JFK, for example, anytime soon.
RDU-LGA will be reduced by two daily, but all flights will use the CR7.
Mar 31, 2010, 4:18 pm
#114
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So weekday ex-RDU Eagle service after all these adjustments will be:
5x BOS
9x LGA (CR7)
4x JFK
8x DCA (given that AA is losing 8 slots at DCA and these flights aren't usually full, I'm guess there will be a pull back of a couple frequencies there).
2x ORD (in addition to 3 mainline)
Amazing to see the pullback at RDU though.
Mar 31, 2010, 5:23 pm
#115
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I'm disappointed to see the reduction in JFK-DCA service.
I've been flying DCA-JFK-DCA weekly and it's almost always completely full....in fact, usually when I do standby, I get the very last seat. Now, of course that doesn't tell us anything about yield, but it is Eagle, and yields on smaller aircraft tend to be higher than on mainline on most domestic routes.
Plus, there is significant regular non-rev traffic on this route given how many JFK-based International crews live in WAS and commute up to JFK. I can't see AA pulling back too much from JFK-DCA-JFK.
One thing I constantly wonder is: WHY on earth isn't there a ~6pm DCA-JFK flight, when there is a 6:30pm JFK-DCA? Most of us working people can't make the 4pm flight DCA-JFK, so we have to wait all the way until 8:20pm!!!! Plus, a 6pm DCA-JFK would connect smoothly to the EZE/GRU/late-CDG flights. Currently, the only reasonable international connection from the 8pm DCA-JFK is the latest LHR departure.
I also suspect AA loses some customers on this route to Amtrak given that a 6pm Acela would get to Penn Station before the 8:20pm flight gets to JFK, with the added benefit of already being in midtown. I find that the 5-7pm time frame is not a particularly productive part of my day, so I'd rather just get on the road on my way up to NYC instead of waiting around until 8pm just to be able to sit in the office a bit longer, and then have a long AirTrain+Subway/LIRR trip into Manhattan.
I've been flying DCA-JFK-DCA weekly and it's almost always completely full....in fact, usually when I do standby, I get the very last seat. Now, of course that doesn't tell us anything about yield, but it is Eagle, and yields on smaller aircraft tend to be higher than on mainline on most domestic routes.
Plus, there is significant regular non-rev traffic on this route given how many JFK-based International crews live in WAS and commute up to JFK. I can't see AA pulling back too much from JFK-DCA-JFK.
One thing I constantly wonder is: WHY on earth isn't there a ~6pm DCA-JFK flight, when there is a 6:30pm JFK-DCA? Most of us working people can't make the 4pm flight DCA-JFK, so we have to wait all the way until 8:20pm!!!! Plus, a 6pm DCA-JFK would connect smoothly to the EZE/GRU/late-CDG flights. Currently, the only reasonable international connection from the 8pm DCA-JFK is the latest LHR departure.
I also suspect AA loses some customers on this route to Amtrak given that a 6pm Acela would get to Penn Station before the 8:20pm flight gets to JFK, with the added benefit of already being in midtown. I find that the 5-7pm time frame is not a particularly productive part of my day, so I'd rather just get on the road on my way up to NYC instead of waiting around until 8pm just to be able to sit in the office a bit longer, and then have a long AirTrain+Subway/LIRR trip into Manhattan.
Last edited by ESpen36; Mar 31, 2010 at 5:30 pm
Mar 31, 2010, 5:27 pm
#116
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I'm disappointed to see the reduction in JFK-DCA service.
I've been flying DCA-JFK-DCA weekly and it's almost always completely full....in fact, usually when I do standby, I get the very last seat. Now, of course that doesn't tell us anything about yield, but it is Eagle, and yields on smaller aircraft tend to be higher than on mainline on most domestic routes.
Plus, there is a significant contingent of non-revs on this route given how many JFK-based International crews live in WAS and commute up to JFK. I can't see AA pulling back too much from JFK-DCA-JFK.
One thing I constantly wonder is: WHY on earth isn't there a ~6pm DCA-JFK flight, when there is a 6:30pm JFK-DCA? Most of us working people can't make the 4pm flight DCA-JFK, so we have to wait all the way until 8:20pm!!!! Plus, a 6pm DCA-JFK would connect smoothly to the EZE/GRU/late-CDG flights. Currently, the only reasonable international connection from the 8pm DCA-JFK is the latest LHR departure.
I also suspect AA loses some customers on this route to Amtrak given that a 6pm Acela would get to Penn Station before the 8:20pm flight gets to JFK, with the added benefit of already being in midtown.
I've been flying DCA-JFK-DCA weekly and it's almost always completely full....in fact, usually when I do standby, I get the very last seat. Now, of course that doesn't tell us anything about yield, but it is Eagle, and yields on smaller aircraft tend to be higher than on mainline on most domestic routes.
Plus, there is a significant contingent of non-revs on this route given how many JFK-based International crews live in WAS and commute up to JFK. I can't see AA pulling back too much from JFK-DCA-JFK.
One thing I constantly wonder is: WHY on earth isn't there a ~6pm DCA-JFK flight, when there is a 6:30pm JFK-DCA? Most of us working people can't make the 4pm flight DCA-JFK, so we have to wait all the way until 8:20pm!!!! Plus, a 6pm DCA-JFK would connect smoothly to the EZE/GRU/late-CDG flights. Currently, the only reasonable international connection from the 8pm DCA-JFK is the latest LHR departure.
I also suspect AA loses some customers on this route to Amtrak given that a 6pm Acela would get to Penn Station before the 8:20pm flight gets to JFK, with the added benefit of already being in midtown.
I don't think DCA-JFK flights are timed for WAS-NYC commuters. But I do agree, the lack of a flight to connect to EZE/GRU/late-CDG and GIG (?) doesn't make sense. Maybe the idea is to feed all S.A. traffic from DCA via MIA?
Mar 31, 2010, 7:23 pm
#117
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Good to see a CR7 flying between NYC and RDU. Still not as good as the erstwhile S80 that one stopped LGA-RDU-AUS but it's something.
Mar 31, 2010, 8:30 pm
#118
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This has nothing to do with anti-trust. It has a lot to do, however, with reducing AA's ERJ usage and freeing up other slots at JFK. AA ERJs RDU-JFK are almost certainly unprofitable, given the price competition from B6 on the same route. AA does need a way for RDU pax to connect with JFK int'l flights, but B6 can do that. Anyone reading between the lines will see that the next shoe to drop will be a codeshare (possibly with B6 entry into OW).. after which B6 will take over the route entirely. It's only a question of when.
Mar 31, 2010, 9:28 pm
#119
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I expect this will lead to B6 inevitably joining AA in OneWorld. Even without a defined first class product, B6 is still alliance worthy and B6's entrance into OneWorld strengthens the alliance in North America and makes a whole lot of sense for all parties involved.
Mar 31, 2010, 11:54 pm
#120
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AA and B6 sign Agreement for Cooperation at JFK
JetBlue Agreement
American Airlines and JetBlue Airways today announced an agreement for commercial collaboration in New York and Boston that benefits customers of both airlines. The agreement will provide customers with interline service in non-overlapping markets, which will offer them more choices and convenient connections. The companies are also exploring other commercial cooperation.
The partnership will focus on routes into and out of JFK and Boston Logan International Airport that extend and complement each others' networks. For example, it would provide seamless service for customers who wish to fly nonstop from Nantucket to JFK on JetBlue and from there to London on American. Likewise, customers can board American from Paris to JFK and connect to a nonstop flight on JetBlue to Burlington, Vt. JetBlue customers will be able to effortlessly connect on flights to 12 of American's international destinations from JFK and Boston including Barcelona, Spain; Sao Paulo, Brazil; and Tokyo, Japan.
On domestic routes where the carriers don't currently compete, American customers can book convenient, nonstop JetBlue flights from JFK and Boston to 18 domestic markets, including Portland, Maine; Nantucket, Mass.; and Burlington, Vt.
Under terms of the agreement, American intends to transfer eight slot pairs at Ronald Reagan National Airport and one slot pair at White Plains, N.Y. to JetBlue, and JetBlue intends to transfer 12 slot pairs at JFK to American.
Customers of both airlines are expected to benefit from improved connections, while each airline will see additional customers fed into their networks. None of the routes on which the airlines will cooperate overlap current flights served by the other. The agreement will provide connections for more passengers at JFK and Boston to American's international destinations in Europe, Asia, and South America. It also will generate more traffic and support for American's planned joint business with oneworld partners British Airways and Iberia between North America and Europe, and with Japan Airlines between North America and Asia.
"This new agreement with JetBlue complements our domestic and international network and will bolster our partnerships with other oneworld members. It will provide important opportunities to grow international traffic flowing into and out of the United States for American," Arpey said. "That ultimately strengthens our operations, network, and customer feed at JFK and at Boston Logan. And, while we bolster American's own network, in turn we will help solidify oneworld as the premier global alliance with the finest airline brands and networks worldwide."
Certain portions of the cooperative agreement may be subject to regulatory review.
American Airlines and JetBlue Airways today announced an agreement for commercial collaboration in New York and Boston that benefits customers of both airlines. The agreement will provide customers with interline service in non-overlapping markets, which will offer them more choices and convenient connections. The companies are also exploring other commercial cooperation.
The partnership will focus on routes into and out of JFK and Boston Logan International Airport that extend and complement each others' networks. For example, it would provide seamless service for customers who wish to fly nonstop from Nantucket to JFK on JetBlue and from there to London on American. Likewise, customers can board American from Paris to JFK and connect to a nonstop flight on JetBlue to Burlington, Vt. JetBlue customers will be able to effortlessly connect on flights to 12 of American's international destinations from JFK and Boston including Barcelona, Spain; Sao Paulo, Brazil; and Tokyo, Japan.
On domestic routes where the carriers don't currently compete, American customers can book convenient, nonstop JetBlue flights from JFK and Boston to 18 domestic markets, including Portland, Maine; Nantucket, Mass.; and Burlington, Vt.
Under terms of the agreement, American intends to transfer eight slot pairs at Ronald Reagan National Airport and one slot pair at White Plains, N.Y. to JetBlue, and JetBlue intends to transfer 12 slot pairs at JFK to American.
Customers of both airlines are expected to benefit from improved connections, while each airline will see additional customers fed into their networks. None of the routes on which the airlines will cooperate overlap current flights served by the other. The agreement will provide connections for more passengers at JFK and Boston to American's international destinations in Europe, Asia, and South America. It also will generate more traffic and support for American's planned joint business with oneworld partners British Airways and Iberia between North America and Europe, and with Japan Airlines between North America and Asia.
"This new agreement with JetBlue complements our domestic and international network and will bolster our partnerships with other oneworld members. It will provide important opportunities to grow international traffic flowing into and out of the United States for American," Arpey said. "That ultimately strengthens our operations, network, and customer feed at JFK and at Boston Logan. And, while we bolster American's own network, in turn we will help solidify oneworld as the premier global alliance with the finest airline brands and networks worldwide."
Certain portions of the cooperative agreement may be subject to regulatory review.