Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#1411
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS, BRU, POA
Programs: Skyteam E+ (FB PfL), Latam Black, LH MM, Iberia plus, HH: Diamond, Marriott Bonvoy: Plat
Posts: 1,124
Close to no change if you have status already. If you don't have status, it will involve way more flying then before to move up to higher tier (e.g. 580 XP if you want to move up from Explorer to Platinum in one year)
#1412
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United Kingdom
Programs: FlyingBlue
Posts: 51
Yep... That would be just under 50XP per month, which I guess is possible, but for someone just starting out, would be an incredible challenge
#1413
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: MUC
Programs: TK Elite, FB Gold
Posts: 315
I got Silver through a great mileage run after the conversion to XP on April first. Now I have a year to run for Gold, for which I'll be 49 XP short at the end of May, after my planned flights. Does anyone have a strategy for moving up status? Feels like it makes sense to wait and spread out the flights so that I get the most out of this year of SIlver and then move to Gold.
#1414
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,730
Then you're on a similar journey as me, B0gdan.
I have just enough incidental travel booked to get me to Gold in the dying days of 2018. I feel like it's best not to tear my membership year too far away from the calendar year, so (with reference to those that think FB should be designed to "make sense"), I am incentivised not to book any further travel on AFKL other than those trips I have already booked and which will just take me over the 180XP mark by the end of the year.
Of course, if your goal is to maintain Gold from now on, then it may not make much difference to you how soon you cross that threshold. One side effect of the new programme is that EVERYONE who at least requalifies benefits from a "rollover", so there really is no such thing as "wasted level segments" as there was in the previous scheme.
Once I have Gold locked in, the issue of changing my membership year won't arise - I never intend to get anywhere close to Platinum, so thereafter, there won't really be an issue - all XPs will end up having a requalification effect, without any fear of a year-realignment effect.
I have just enough incidental travel booked to get me to Gold in the dying days of 2018. I feel like it's best not to tear my membership year too far away from the calendar year, so (with reference to those that think FB should be designed to "make sense"), I am incentivised not to book any further travel on AFKL other than those trips I have already booked and which will just take me over the 180XP mark by the end of the year.
Of course, if your goal is to maintain Gold from now on, then it may not make much difference to you how soon you cross that threshold. One side effect of the new programme is that EVERYONE who at least requalifies benefits from a "rollover", so there really is no such thing as "wasted level segments" as there was in the previous scheme.
Once I have Gold locked in, the issue of changing my membership year won't arise - I never intend to get anywhere close to Platinum, so thereafter, there won't really be an issue - all XPs will end up having a requalification effect, without any fear of a year-realignment effect.
#1415
Join Date: Aug 2007
Programs: FB Platinum, AS MVP Gold, HH Gold, IHG Gold
Posts: 254
Hi,
For those originating from Paris and speaking French, I studied the new redemption chart for Air France Long Haul destinations:
https://blog.flight-report.com/fr/in...s-flying-blue/
For those originating from Paris and speaking French, I studied the new redemption chart for Air France Long Haul destinations:
https://blog.flight-report.com/fr/in...s-flying-blue/
Last edited by Leadership; Apr 12, 2018 at 8:53 am
#1416
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,730
Could you perhaps remove those large inline images from your post, please? It makes scrolling difficult, especially on mobile devices. Thanks!
(You may also want to edit the image to clarify that you are taking a solely CDG-centric view; many of your red redemption cities are actually green for other European origins)
#1417
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
Creating a silly feature that incite some marginals to fly other airlines rather than AFKL is not smart. On the other hand, I understand that it is difficult to design earning rules based on paid amounts for partner airlines. I am sure that AFKL management are aware of these quirks and will progressively adjust as the program is being implemented.
It is not necessarily silly to change a programme that will result in making huge savings on miles awards at the cost of dis-incentivising a couple of flyers. In addition to those who do not care/are not fully aware, there are also those who know but still think that booking AF/KL is worth it for one reason or another. Let us not forget either that it is those who are at the cheaper end of the market rather than the big spenders that will be disproportionately affected by the new scheme. Unless we have the numbers at our disposal, we are just making wild guesses, largely extrapolated from our own anecdotal experience, which will most probably simply function as an amplifying echo chamber for our own cognitive biases of what "frequent flyers" do and do not do.
I think that you make an important point in the highlighted bit: the current system may not be the theoretical "best" for AF/KL's perpective in that a universal spend-based system might be better. But it could still conceivably be a second best based on what is feasible.
#1418
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
Yes, but you have foregone all XPs.
I don't really get the focus on Award Miles that is prevalent on this forum - FB is such a bad programme that only the EQMs [to borrow that horrible American jargon that normally makes my teeth grind!] are of "interest". I fear that you have made a bad decision in this regard!
I don't really get the focus on Award Miles that is prevalent on this forum - FB is such a bad programme that only the EQMs [to borrow that horrible American jargon that normally makes my teeth grind!] are of "interest". I fear that you have made a bad decision in this regard!
I just did a trip to China which would have earnt me circa 27K miles under the old scheme and would have earnt me circa 5K under the new scheme had my AF/KL flights all been AF/KL coded (I had the return intercontinental segment CZ-coded, which mitigated the impact of the new scheme).
The difference on this single trip is basically one intra-European return award, which is not worthless to me.
#1419
Join Date: Aug 2007
Programs: FB Platinum, AS MVP Gold, HH Gold, IHG Gold
Posts: 254
The discussion regarding changes in redemption rates has its own thread: Further changes: Origin and destination pricing as of June 2018
Could you perhaps remove those large inline images from your post, please? It makes scrolling difficult, especially on mobile devices. Thanks!
(You may also want to edit the image to clarify that you are taking a solely CDG-centric view; many of your red redemption cities are actually green for other European origins)
Could you perhaps remove those large inline images from your post, please? It makes scrolling difficult, especially on mobile devices. Thanks!
(You may also want to edit the image to clarify that you are taking a solely CDG-centric view; many of your red redemption cities are actually green for other European origins)
#1420
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,051
Otherwise it can be a good change. I will be getting 35 extra XP on an upcoming trip for about only 200EUR surcharge, by switching up one part of the flight to J. This would not have made sense previously.
Those who occasionally score a longhaul, but not often enough so that miles trump segments, win too, as now longhauls matter more.
I got Silver through a great mileage run after the conversion to XP on April first. Now I have a year to run for Gold, for which I'll be 49 XP short at the end of May, after my planned flights. Does anyone have a strategy for moving up status? Feels like it makes sense to wait and spread out the flights so that I get the most out of this year of SIlver and then move to Gold.
#1422
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,730
Award booking issues on FB website
However, you have answered your own question.
#1423
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: MUC
Programs: TK Elite, FB Gold
Posts: 315
Then you're on a similar journey as me, B0gdan.
I have just enough incidental travel booked to get me to Gold in the dying days of 2018. I feel like it's best not to tear my membership year too far away from the calendar year, so (with reference to those that think FB should be designed to "make sense"), I am incentivised not to book any further travel on AFKL other than those trips I have already booked and which will just take me over the 180XP mark by the end of the year.
Of course, if your goal is to maintain Gold from now on, then it may not make much difference to you how soon you cross that threshold. One side effect of the new programme is that EVERYONE who at least requalifies benefits from a "rollover", so there really is no such thing as "wasted level segments" as there was in the previous scheme.
Once I have Gold locked in, the issue of changing my membership year won't arise - I never intend to get anywhere close to Platinum, so thereafter, there won't really be an issue - all XPs will end up having a requalification effect, without any fear of a year-realignment effect.
I have just enough incidental travel booked to get me to Gold in the dying days of 2018. I feel like it's best not to tear my membership year too far away from the calendar year, so (with reference to those that think FB should be designed to "make sense"), I am incentivised not to book any further travel on AFKL other than those trips I have already booked and which will just take me over the 180XP mark by the end of the year.
Of course, if your goal is to maintain Gold from now on, then it may not make much difference to you how soon you cross that threshold. One side effect of the new programme is that EVERYONE who at least requalifies benefits from a "rollover", so there really is no such thing as "wasted level segments" as there was in the previous scheme.
Once I have Gold locked in, the issue of changing my membership year won't arise - I never intend to get anywhere close to Platinum, so thereafter, there won't really be an issue - all XPs will end up having a requalification effect, without any fear of a year-realignment effect.
#1424
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 24
They do need people to like the program and use the program in order for them to make money out of it... and it's not just about the program rules but the overall experience: check out the new website. It sucks big time, full of bugs and errors. The design gives me the impression we're back in early 2000, when the first sites were designed. It really look as if they forgot about the site, then decided to developed it in under two months, brought it live without testing it and then hoped for the best. Spray and pray.... If I were the head of FB, I'd have done some thorough checking and validating before giving the go-live on that one. Seems as if he doesn't care about it or has no idea on how important this is in today's digital world.
#1425
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Switzerland
Programs: AFKL Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador Elite
Posts: 369
An update on my weird domestic flight that was marketed KL, on J class, but operated by AZ with economy-only cabin flight.
I needed to request manual accrual of XPs and miles - but I got only 2 XPs - they probably considered the cabin of the operating flight and NOT the fare class of the marketed flight. The entry I see on my profile contains the KL marketed flight.
It didn't use to work like that with level miles - I've always got the amount corresponding to the fare class of the marketed flight.
But now, for XPs, it seems that the actual *cabin* is the parameter that determines the accrued XPs.
Do you think this is right?
I needed to request manual accrual of XPs and miles - but I got only 2 XPs - they probably considered the cabin of the operating flight and NOT the fare class of the marketed flight. The entry I see on my profile contains the KL marketed flight.
It didn't use to work like that with level miles - I've always got the amount corresponding to the fare class of the marketed flight.
But now, for XPs, it seems that the actual *cabin* is the parameter that determines the accrued XPs.
Do you think this is right?