Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#1366
#1367
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 500
So why are KL and AF making them self less attractive to fly with when earnings of award miles will be much higher on partner airlines? 🙄
#1368
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: Flying Blue Plat, Air Europa Silver, IHG Plat, Accor Plat
Posts: 1,011
Partners are often not practical for European flyers, so I guess KL-AF has decided to leave things the way they were, which is fine from my point of view. It's an opportunity to earn more miles, so would not complain about it.
#1369
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,748
If your route and travel patterns can easily and fully be booked as AFKL codeshare flights issued by a partner, by all means, by your ticket that way, and stick it to them. But...if you're flying around Europe, which is where most FB customers do most of their flying, that's not really an option.
#1370
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nice, France, EU
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum For Life, BA Bronze, LH FQTV
Posts: 114
Abonné earnings
ORY-NCE as PFL with abonné fare earned before 01/04 4000 miles, now it's 2864 miles (+ 8 XP).
Flying Blue, NOT ANYMORE generous by nature®
Flying Blue, NOT ANYMORE generous by nature®
#1371
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,072
If your route and travel patterns can easily and fully be booked as AFKL codeshare flights issued by a partner, by all means, by your ticket that way, and stick it to them. But...if you're flying around Europe, which is where most FB customers do most of their flying, that's not really an option.
#1372
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: US
Programs: FB Gold
Posts: 21
Because only about 50 people in the world find AF/KL "attractive" due to the already poor FB earning rates.
If your route and travel patterns can easily and fully be booked as AFKL codeshare flights issued by a partner, by all means, by your ticket that way, and stick it to them. But...if you're flying around Europe, which is where most FB customers do most of their flying, that's not really an option.
If your route and travel patterns can easily and fully be booked as AFKL codeshare flights issued by a partner, by all means, by your ticket that way, and stick it to them. But...if you're flying around Europe, which is where most FB customers do most of their flying, that's not really an option.
#1373
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 🇸🇬 🇭🇰 🇫🇷
Programs: Many
Posts: 4,749
For a Platinum with Abonné fare the return did net 4,000 level miles and 4,000 award miles (total 8,000 miles). Abonné fare being 644 EUR excluding taxes, it now provides 5,152 miles.
Minus 35%
And we talk here about their most loyal (Platinum) and profitable (Abonné) customers, for the domestic market of course.
#1374
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,935
Because only about 50 people in the world find AF/KL "attractive" due to the already poor FB earning rates.
If your route and travel patterns can easily and fully be booked as AFKL codeshare flights issued by a partner, by all means, by your ticket that way, and stick it to them. But...if you're flying around Europe, which is where most FB customers do most of their flying, that's not really an option.
If your route and travel patterns can easily and fully be booked as AFKL codeshare flights issued by a partner, by all means, by your ticket that way, and stick it to them. But...if you're flying around Europe, which is where most FB customers do most of their flying, that's not really an option.
But we may also not forget that the immense majority of pax/FB members have no clue about all those subtle details.
#1375
Join Date: Jul 2010
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hilton Honors Diamond, IHG Diamond, Marriott Tit, Accor Plat
Posts: 246
Changed mileage calculation?
I flew Jeddah to Manila on SV (business class, Platinum) before 1st April and gained 13410 miles.
For the return, Manila to Jeddah, same booking class but after 1st April, I gained 13355 miles (and 36 XP).
I don't know why it's different. But on a cheap SV fare it's still plenty more miles than would be earned on AF/KL.
For the return, Manila to Jeddah, same booking class but after 1st April, I gained 13355 miles (and 36 XP).
I don't know why it's different. But on a cheap SV fare it's still plenty more miles than would be earned on AF/KL.
#1376
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,568
Because only about 50 people in the world find AF/KL "attractive" due to the already poor FB earning rates.
If your route and travel patterns can easily and fully be booked as AFKL codeshare flights issued by a partner, by all means, by your ticket that way, and stick it to them. But...if you're flying around Europe, which is where most FB customers do most of their flying, that's not really an option.
If your route and travel patterns can easily and fully be booked as AFKL codeshare flights issued by a partner, by all means, by your ticket that way, and stick it to them. But...if you're flying around Europe, which is where most FB customers do most of their flying, that's not really an option.
But there are many options for longhaul for pax flying from CDG/AMS and even from other European airports.
It could well be that most people don't care about getting more miles, but it would be surprising if AFKL don't realize the differential magnitude in many cases. Actually flying on other ST partners metal looks attractive in several cases compared to flying AFKL.
Depending on the JV/codeshare agreement, AFKL might not care too much if there is a switch of marketing airline. But it is really unusual that one can get more miles on ST partners than on AFKL; in many other FFPs, it is the reverse.
Last edited by brunos; Apr 7, 2018 at 8:34 am
#1377
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SE England
Programs: AF-KL Platinum, ALL Platinum
Posts: 756
I flew Jeddah to Manila on SV (business class, Platinum) before 1st April and gained 13410 miles.
For the return, Manila to Jeddah, same booking class but after 1st April, I gained 13355 miles (and 36 XP).
I don't know why it's different. But on a cheap SV fare it's still plenty more miles than would be earned on AF/KL.
For the return, Manila to Jeddah, same booking class but after 1st April, I gained 13355 miles (and 36 XP).
I don't know why it's different. But on a cheap SV fare it's still plenty more miles than would be earned on AF/KL.
#1379
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PEK, AUS, WAS, HKG
Programs: CX Gold
Posts: 1,123
According to the new "Flight type simulator" any US domestic flight will earn XP according to the domestic column of the XP chart. A US-Canada flight will earn in Medium (JFK-YUL) or Long 1 (JFK-YVR) columns of the XP chart. The logic behind it is solid in a way but in another way earning 2 XP for a 45 minute flight compared to earning 2 XP for a JFK-SFO or other transcontinental flight is not right.
The Delta earnings page (for Miles) shows a breakdown of which "category" the specific fares will fall in. You'll note they split it up into Delta International Long Haul and Delta Domestic & Regional International. The takeaway is that Delta First Class will fall into the Business Class segment when earning XP points. For Miles the earning rate is as it was before for "First Class". I've noticed that depending on the way the trip is ticketed, you can have a International Long Haul fare bucket (say, Z bucket) on a Delta Domestic or Regional International flight (ie. one of my upcoming trips has a segment ATL-JFK in the Z bucket instead of one of the "First Class" buckets).
Below bold is my added emphasis.
The Delta earnings page (for Miles) shows a breakdown of which "category" the specific fares will fall in. You'll note they split it up into Delta International Long Haul and Delta Domestic & Regional International. The takeaway is that Delta First Class will fall into the Business Class segment when earning XP points. For Miles the earning rate is as it was before for "First Class". I've noticed that depending on the way the trip is ticketed, you can have a International Long Haul fare bucket (say, Z bucket) on a Delta Domestic or Regional International flight (ie. one of my upcoming trips has a segment ATL-JFK in the Z bucket instead of one of the "First Class" buckets).
Below bold is my added emphasis.
#1380
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: Flying Blue Silver
Posts: 123
I want to check the award miles for a DL-coded, DL-operated flight I took and the dashboard does not provide a lot of information. Google leads me to https://flyingblue.com/calculator/earn.html but I do not find a miles calculator there. Any hints on what I should do?