Nov 6, 2017, 3:33 am
Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
Apr 3, 2018, 1:31 am
#1276
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: GOT
Programs: KL Plat
Posts: 484
Curiosity, with the new XP system is there any difference between buying an Economy ticket against a Light ticket? I just noticed as Gold that with Light I get a free 23kg suitcase as opposed to having to buy luggage.
The old system didn't seem favorable towards the Light fare but the new system does.
So if I'm doing Economy say on CDG to LHR, just as an example, which is 5XP do I get those same 5XP if I'm buying a Light ticket?
The old system didn't seem favorable towards the Light fare but the new system does.
So if I'm doing Economy say on CDG to LHR, just as an example, which is 5XP do I get those same 5XP if I'm buying a Light ticket?
Apr 3, 2018, 1:54 am
#1277
Join Date: Mar 2016
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum
Posts: 177
Thanks, I know internal flights are 2xp but it was whether there was any difference in buying a straight Economy standard ticket or Economy light.
Just doing a four night stay in a city is more economical for me if it’s Light as I only ever need one suitcase.
Edit: just called FB to get them to adjust my points from the 31st March. Seems as though it CAN be done but they themselves are having troubles doing it. Mind you, I'm not surprised as the new website has difficulties loading at times.
Just doing a four night stay in a city is more economical for me if it’s Light as I only ever need one suitcase.
Edit: just called FB to get them to adjust my points from the 31st March. Seems as though it CAN be done but they themselves are having troubles doing it. Mind you, I'm not surprised as the new website has difficulties loading at times.
Last edited by TographerE; Apr 3, 2018 at 2:57 am
Apr 3, 2018, 3:28 am
#1278
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Switzerland
Programs: AFKL Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador Elite
Posts: 369
I would like to try to see if it's possible to get those counters by looking at the response of some services (in the case of Ultimate/PFL users) that the dashboard page is calling. I'm 'just' platinum so I can't check.
If you're curious, you're ultimate and/or PFL and you're using Firefox/Chrome, please drop me a private message and we can check. Nothing hackish.
If you're curious, you're ultimate and/or PFL and you're using Firefox/Chrome, please drop me a private message and we can check. Nothing hackish.
Apr 3, 2018, 3:34 am
#1280
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,589
Question of the day (apologies if this was already discussed previously) : when do the miles post, now that it depends on the fare paid ?
- after each flight of the ticket as per the fare component of each leg ?
- all at once after completion of the last flight of the ticket ?
Thanks
- after each flight of the ticket as per the fare component of each leg ?
- all at once after completion of the last flight of the ticket ?
Thanks
Apr 3, 2018, 3:36 am
#1281
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,749
the agent told me no need as 29 x 7 Xp would qualify me for gold on 1st April, which would last to 31st Dec 2019 + 3 month, which appears not to be the case now.
i still have all of the emails, but would have happily spent £100 on a return to AMS if it was giving me an extra 6 months at least at Gold
i still have all of the emails, but would have happily spent £100 on a return to AMS if it was giving me an extra 6 months at least at Gold
They already changed the duration of new statuses awarded under the old scheme for those who went up in status in Jan-March 2018; instead of these statuses being valid until March 2020, they were awarded only until March 2019 in recognition of the impending change in membership years. From now on, any increase in status will only get you one year of that status, instead of the "rest of the current year, all of the next year" regime that applied in the old scheme.
This is because, in the new scheme, an increase in status clears your XPs, resets your membership year, and immediately starts a new 12-month timer. As such, going up in status means you "lose" the remaining time left to run in your membership year at the previous, lower status.
I had thought they wouldn't fully implement the change in status periods until people started going up in status as of 1 April. However, they have been doing it since 1 January and there was nothing in the old FB T&Cs to prevent them from departing from the previous scheme. As such, there is nothing to do but accept that all statuses granted in 2018 have been and will be for shorter periods than was possible under the old scheme.
Had you taken that status run in March and qualified for Gold under the old rules, you still would only have been granted that status til 31 March 2019. This was unexpected but explainable; I also got this unexpectedly shorter status period when I went Ivory->Silver in March. So rest assured that you are not worse off now than if you had run earlier for Gold.
And also, don't expect any call-centre agent to be able to accurately assess and describe hypothetical scenarios about how your various requalification strategies would play out. You would have found better advice here on FT
Apr 3, 2018, 3:41 am
#1282
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Switzerland
Programs: AFKL Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador Elite
Posts: 369
On reward tickets, it is not possible to gain miles and XPs.
From https://www.flyingblue.com/en/partne...lse&earn=false :
Earning Miles and gaining XP isn’t possible for:
- Reward tickets (tickets booked using Miles)
Apr 3, 2018, 3:46 am
#1283
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,749
If you check the pages for earning on the various airline partners, you will see the following (taken from the page for AF):
"Earning Miles and gaining XP isn't possible for: Reward tickets (tickets booked using Miles)"
Apr 3, 2018, 4:03 am
#1284
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: GOT
Programs: KL Plat
Posts: 484
Something had to "give" with the changeover from fixed membership years to "floating" membership years. And this is what had to "give".
They already changed the duration of new statuses awarded under the old scheme for those who went up in status in Jan-March 2018; instead of these statuses being valid until March 2020, they were awarded only until March 2019 in recognition of the impending change in membership years. From now on, any increase in status will only get you one year of that status, instead of the "rest of the current year, all of the next year" regime that applied in the old scheme.
This is because, in the new scheme, an increase in status clears your XPs, resets your membership year, and immediately starts a new 12-month timer. As such, going up in status means you "lose" the remaining time left to run in your membership year at the previous, lower status.
I had thought they wouldn't fully implement the change in status periods until people started going up in status as of 1 April. However, they have been doing it since 1 January and there was nothing in the old FB T&Cs to prevent them from departing from the previous scheme. As such, there is nothing to do but accept that all statuses granted in 2018 have been and will be for shorter periods than was possible under the old scheme.
Had you taken that status run in March and qualified for Gold under the old rules, you still would only have been granted that status til 31 March 2019. This was unexpected but explainable; I also got this unexpectedly shorter status period when I went Ivory->Silver in March. So rest assured that you are not worse off now than if you had run earlier for Gold.
And also, don't expect any call-centre agent to be able to accurately assess and describe hypothetical scenarios about how your various requalification strategies would play out. You would have found better advice here on FT
They already changed the duration of new statuses awarded under the old scheme for those who went up in status in Jan-March 2018; instead of these statuses being valid until March 2020, they were awarded only until March 2019 in recognition of the impending change in membership years. From now on, any increase in status will only get you one year of that status, instead of the "rest of the current year, all of the next year" regime that applied in the old scheme.
This is because, in the new scheme, an increase in status clears your XPs, resets your membership year, and immediately starts a new 12-month timer. As such, going up in status means you "lose" the remaining time left to run in your membership year at the previous, lower status.
I had thought they wouldn't fully implement the change in status periods until people started going up in status as of 1 April. However, they have been doing it since 1 January and there was nothing in the old FB T&Cs to prevent them from departing from the previous scheme. As such, there is nothing to do but accept that all statuses granted in 2018 have been and will be for shorter periods than was possible under the old scheme.
Had you taken that status run in March and qualified for Gold under the old rules, you still would only have been granted that status til 31 March 2019. This was unexpected but explainable; I also got this unexpectedly shorter status period when I went Ivory->Silver in March. So rest assured that you are not worse off now than if you had run earlier for Gold.
And also, don't expect any call-centre agent to be able to accurately assess and describe hypothetical scenarios about how your various requalification strategies would play out. You would have found better advice here on FT
If you were e.g. 1 segment short of Gold before April, then you would have been better to make that extra segment since you would start the new scheme as Gold AND retain your XPs that got you there. To make up those segments to go to Gold now means you lose 180 XP. Likewise if you achieved Gold from the conversion. Effectively you get 1 year of Gold rather than 2.
Apr 3, 2018, 4:32 am
#1285
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
Since FB won't be telling me my XPs any more, I'll resort to Microsoft XLS.
Hence a question on how they accounted for the AMEX card in the conversion:
Hence a question on how they accounted for the AMEX card in the conversion:
- Did they take all the Level miles I had on March 31st and multiply them by 5, and that was the new XP level?
- Or did they take my flying activity, convert that, and *then* add 60XP for the Platinum AMEX?
Apr 3, 2018, 4:34 am
#1286
Join Date: Mar 2016
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum
Posts: 177
Amex was converted by 7 XP
All segments, as far as I know, were multiplied by 7 before 31st March. Some of us are working on the segment flown on the 31st March as they have been converted on the new system.
All segments, as far as I know, were multiplied by 7 before 31st March. Some of us are working on the segment flown on the 31st March as they have been converted on the new system.
Apr 3, 2018, 5:20 am
#1287
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,749
Since FB won't be telling me my XPs any more, I'll resort to Microsoft XLS.
Hence a question on how they accounted for the AMEX card in the conversion:
Hence a question on how they accounted for the AMEX card in the conversion:
- Did they take all the Level miles I had on March 31st and multiply them by 5, and that was the new XP level?
- Or did they take my flying activity, convert that, and *then* add 60XP for the Platinum AMEX?
Also, there is no question of them "taking my flying activity, convert that, and *then* add 60XP for the Platinum AMEX?" as you asked. The "bonus" of the AMEX FB has nothing to do with the conversion. The "bonus" is only applied to your account on the anniversary date of your card - if your anniversary fell already in 2018, then you would have had a certain number of level segments added, which then increased that count in advance of the 1 April conversion. If your anniversary date falls after 1 April, the XPs will be added to your account on that anniversary date.
But to answer your question:
The process is not as difficult as you seem to suggest. On 31 March 2018, you had a level mile balance, and you had a level sector balance. If you had a Flying Blue Amex and have used it for certain purchases so far this calendar year, then the level miles that accrue to Amex spend would already have been in your Level Miles total. If your Amex FB anniversary occurred already in calendar year 2018, then your level sectors running total would have included the relevant number of sectors. The conversion process therefore does not need to know whether you have an AMEX FB card or not. The conversion process only uses the Level Miles and Level Segments totals on 31 March 2018, and converts them, as shown in your FB statement.
(And based on my figures, for the Level Miles calculation, they rounded up.)
Last edited by irishguy28; Apr 3, 2018 at 5:29 am
Apr 3, 2018, 5:32 am
#1288
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: NE England
Programs: BA, KLM
Posts: 84
I haven't calculated for miles-based earners, but for segments, (excluding France/Monaco residents), then by achieving any new status before April you aren't worse off than you would have been in the old scheme. Where one would have expected to then have status till March 2020, indeed the status is only valid till March 2019. However you've collected sufficient segments such that after the conversion you have at least as many XPs needed to grant you 1 year status on your renewal date, i.e. your Jan-March earnings have effectively earned you status till March 2020. This even works for Platinums in France/Monaco (5x 60 segments = 300 XP).
If you were e.g. 1 segment short of Gold before April, then you would have been better to make that extra segment since you would start the new scheme as Gold AND retain your XPs that got you there. To make up those segments to go to Gold now means you lose 180 XP. Likewise if you achieved Gold from the conversion. Effectively you get 1 year of Gold rather than 2.
If you were e.g. 1 segment short of Gold before April, then you would have been better to make that extra segment since you would start the new scheme as Gold AND retain your XPs that got you there. To make up those segments to go to Gold now means you lose 180 XP. Likewise if you achieved Gold from the conversion. Effectively you get 1 year of Gold rather than 2.
Apr 3, 2018, 5:33 am
#1289
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,749
If you were e.g. 1 segment short of Gold before April, then you would have been better to make that extra segment since you would start the new scheme as Gold AND retain your XPs that got you there. To make up those segments to go to Gold now means you lose 180 XP. Likewise if you achieved Gold from the conversion. Effectively you get 1 year of Gold rather than 2.
While this is correct, it only really matters it the intention was to quickly get to Platinum.
The advice given here in the last few pages was to get to the desired "end" status, or the level just below, prior to the changeover.
If someone wanted to get to Platinum more easily, then they should have obtained Gold before 31 March 2018; however, if Gold is the ultimate destination, then just getting to Silver was generally sufficient.