Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#526
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
Does it really matter, though, how much Miles you earn? You should know that the earning rates can change at any time, and the number of miles you were told at the time of purchase is not guaranteed to actually be the number you will earn.
(I'd be far more concerned about the number of XPs. But it sounds like you are travelling before 1 April next, and that this issue has nothing much to do with the new programme).
#528
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
That's actually NWA. Half the plane is KL, the other NW. On the other side (barely visible at the nose) it's the same but reversed. Seen from the front here.
That's a good 10 years old, then - if not actually far older...
#529
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SE England
Programs: AF-KL Platinum, ALL Platinum
Posts: 755
I don't think the calculator can be trusted for accuracy at the best of times. I would take any indications for the new scheme with a large pinch of salt. The KLM website often gives wildly inaccurate mileage totals!
Does it really matter, though, how much Miles you earn? You should know that the earning rates can change at any time, and the number of miles you were told at the time of purchase is not guaranteed to actually be the number you will earn.
(I'd be far more concerned about the number of XPs. But it sounds like you are travelling before 1 April next, and that this issue has nothing much to do with the new programme).
Does it really matter, though, how much Miles you earn? You should know that the earning rates can change at any time, and the number of miles you were told at the time of purchase is not guaranteed to actually be the number you will earn.
(I'd be far more concerned about the number of XPs. But it sounds like you are travelling before 1 April next, and that this issue has nothing much to do with the new programme).
#530
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
This thread is discussing the changed structure of the FB programme itself. Whether and if you can still earn FB miles through partners or online stores is not something that is really central to the changes announced.
Not sure what you mean about "Skyteam Round The World" but these tickets will still be sold, and these tickets will still earn, in whatever programme you choose (it doesn't have to be FB), and on the basis of whatever earning rules apply on the date that each flight is taken.
i.e. business as usual...
#531
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
The earning percentage is the one listed in the relevant table on the relevant partner page.
The distance between the points is where some discrepancy may creep in. You can look up various sources online and there may be (slight) differences.
But at the end of the day, the exact number is not really that important. Just take the number given by the calculator as a "Place marker" and the actual result should be something in that ball park.
#532
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,064
#533
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SJJ/AMS
Posts: 4,647
#534
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,065
Yes - because under the current rules - in force until 31 March 2018 - any flight in a single membership year *can* have the effect of moving you up more than one rung.
And you seem to acknowledge that this effect - which has been in FB since the start of the programme - ends as of 1 April 2018.
This is why the new FB will be so much less attractive to newcomers, or those interested in attaining status (which is a main feature that runs through the entire programme, given that earning on AFKL is totally dictated by your status level - the number of Miles per euro depends on your status level). It will, for many people, make the earning of status a far longer, more gruelling process than it currently is. [for those simply maintaining an existing status, no real change at all. But the newcomers will be put off. Particularly when no other Skyteam programme that I am aware of operates in the "clear the qualification miles/points/segments each time you go up in status" mode that FB is now, inexplicably, switching to]
And you seem to acknowledge that this effect - which has been in FB since the start of the programme - ends as of 1 April 2018.
This is why the new FB will be so much less attractive to newcomers, or those interested in attaining status (which is a main feature that runs through the entire programme, given that earning on AFKL is totally dictated by your status level - the number of Miles per euro depends on your status level). It will, for many people, make the earning of status a far longer, more gruelling process than it currently is. [for those simply maintaining an existing status, no real change at all. But the newcomers will be put off. Particularly when no other Skyteam programme that I am aware of operates in the "clear the qualification miles/points/segments each time you go up in status" mode that FB is now, inexplicably, switching to]
Damn, do I wish they did this from May 1st... I'm all booked out for March... (and come to think of it, really should start booking tickets soon)
I don't think that shortcut exists, but yes if you qualify between january and april then the flights you've done are effectively counted twice; once for status for 2018 (gained after jan but before april) and once more due to the XP rollover afterwards. I have seen nothing from FB indicating this would work differently; they seem to just accept that a few people will make this happen. This leaves the question of an existing status member re-qualifying before april; their status should extend into 2019 and then 2020 with rollover unless I am mistaken. (qualified this year for 2018, qualified next year before april for 2019, rollover miles applied to qualify for 2020).
if dobe by March: get Gold for 2019: so 12 months of 2019, plus 9 months leading up to 2019.
Then this is converted to 200XP, which will be enough to get Gold for 2020, another 12 months
And if the 3 months grace period is kept (which presumably it will as the reasons it exists are still valid), then we have 9+12+12+3=36 months of Gold, from that one trip.
Even up to 39 in obscenely extreme edge case (P ticket to SIN, out 01JAN, back next day)
I shall be visiting Irkutsk in February.
And sure I don't have much choice in picking a cheaper fare that far out most of the time but there is choice in airline so you would think they would at least try to make it competitive with other airlines. Probably easier to gain status on BA now as they offer tier points for flexible economy tickets that are comparable with Business class tier points.
They might indeed find though that they loose to other airlines - also expensive, but better earning.
The big question here is, is there enough people who buy expensive tickets, but not enough of them that status miles matters? Would many of these people be willing to change alliances?
AFKL has a slight advantage here - *A via LH and it's most obvious M&M program, which has ridiculously high earning requirement for their Gold*, is not very attractive, and OW is all on edges of Europe, now with AB bankrupcy even more so (BA, IB, AY, all on the edges of Europe, none practical to use unless you go to their home market)
*It really is completely ridiculous if you fly in Europe. 40 best earning business class segments, or 107(!!) discount business segments to get the 80k pre-silver-bonus miles. Up to 160 typical economy segments.... Really the only way is to do regular premium longhaul.
#535
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: South Coast, UK
Programs: Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 2,069
Awards on Partners
It seems that Dynamic pricing of Awards only applies to KL/AF, so it seems that Awards won't be increased to get to Aus with the Chinese partners.
Would there be a partner flying to the US from mainland Europe that would offer better value?
Would there be a partner flying to the US from mainland Europe that would offer better value?
#536
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
#537
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
#539
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SE England
Programs: AF-KL Platinum, ALL Platinum
Posts: 755
Just spoken to a really helpful FB Platinum Service Centre person.^ Made more sense to me than the FB website.
When we start on 1st April 2018 with XP, I'll have 260 XP, then lets say I reach 300 XP in October 2018. It then goes back to 0 XP and of course I stay at Platinum. Then assume I reach another 300 XP by March 2019, that's then 2 Platinum "years". So to reach Platinum for Life does not have to take 10 calendar years, instead just 10 of the "years" or cycles or whatever they are called - then again there's not many who can cram in so much flying like that!!
There's an error in the Miles calculator that has been flagged to be fixed as we went through step by step how Miles are calculated (again assuming the example I used above) and it was over by 52 Miles.
When we start on 1st April 2018 with XP, I'll have 260 XP, then lets say I reach 300 XP in October 2018. It then goes back to 0 XP and of course I stay at Platinum. Then assume I reach another 300 XP by March 2019, that's then 2 Platinum "years". So to reach Platinum for Life does not have to take 10 calendar years, instead just 10 of the "years" or cycles or whatever they are called - then again there's not many who can cram in so much flying like that!!
There's an error in the Miles calculator that has been flagged to be fixed as we went through step by step how Miles are calculated (again assuming the example I used above) and it was over by 52 Miles.
#540
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS/AMS/HAM
Programs: HH-D / IHG-Sp / Marriott-P / LH-SEN / BA-S
Posts: 215
But this is strange. How do they determine the price for their partner? Can they even sell for instance HKG-ICN operated by KE or intra-US by DL? Or is the chart removal only for their own metals?