Nov 6, 2017, 3:33 am
Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
Nov 7, 2017, 10:26 am
#496
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,065
I've just had a DM Twitter message from AF and they try to explain how great the new system is.
So instead of needing 30 segments for Gold it's now 36.
But take out the AMEX AF card, which I have, to help those XP points along.
Oh, and you could also stump up another 300€ a year for some other card they mentioned to me.
Honestly, I'm waiting for the explanation as to how this is a better experience and especially so for a small business like me.
My only option is to do business 5 times a year from CDG to LHR and have that combined with my AmEx card to get my Gold each year. OK, that's only around 1500€ worth of flights but I have other places I want to be than the UK 5 times a year.
So instead of needing 30 segments for Gold it's now 36.
But take out the AMEX AF card, which I have, to help those XP points along.
Oh, and you could also stump up another 300€ a year for some other card they mentioned to me.
Honestly, I'm waiting for the explanation as to how this is a better experience and especially so for a small business like me.
My only option is to do business 5 times a year from CDG to LHR and have that combined with my AmEx card to get my Gold each year. OK, that's only around 1500€ worth of flights but I have other places I want to be than the UK 5 times a year.
If you only fly European Y, it's worse if you want to requalify on Silver, go from Silver to Gold, or requalify on Gold, but not by much. It's the same if you want to requalify on Platinum.
It's much worse if you fly domestic a lot, and if you want to go 2 rungs up.
Nov 7, 2017, 10:28 am
#497
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
Nov 7, 2017, 10:33 am
#498
Join Date: Sep 2016
Programs: Flying Blue, Accor Le Club, Hilton HHonors, Hertz Gold Plus, Avis Preferred
Posts: 476
Nov 7, 2017, 10:34 am
#499
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 22
Hi irishguy28 - thanks for the explanation.
Maybe I am still missing something here, but as I got the Platinum 2016, I was thinking that "my membership year" is 2017, and these 3 months of 2018 are for, as you explained, delayed flights to post. Meanwhile, what FB communicated to me, is that I am going to maintain my status until the end of 2018, 9 months longer than on my card. Still not sure how to understand this.
Not sure what is confusing you about the statement.
The new target, in XPs, is 300 for Platinum. You already have platinum, so you don't need to first worry about first collecting 100 to get Silver, or first collecting another 180 to get Gold.
You currently are Platinum, so your membership year won't change. Therefore, for as long as you remain Platinum, your membership year will stay aligned with the calendar year. Hence, you have from January 1 to 31 December to collect the necessary flying - albeit that from 1 April 2018, the "necessary flying" changes from 60 segments or 70k level miles, to a single blanket 300XP.
That your status was "extended" for an extra 3 months, to the end of the following March, has been a fixture of FB from the very beginning. This is to allow themselves enough time to wait for late or delayed flights to post, even after the end of the (currently, fixed for everybody) membership year; create the new cards reflecting everyone's new status, and send them out in time for the "expiry" of all status on 1 April.
The new target, in XPs, is 300 for Platinum. You already have platinum, so you don't need to first worry about first collecting 100 to get Silver, or first collecting another 180 to get Gold.
You currently are Platinum, so your membership year won't change. Therefore, for as long as you remain Platinum, your membership year will stay aligned with the calendar year. Hence, you have from January 1 to 31 December to collect the necessary flying - albeit that from 1 April 2018, the "necessary flying" changes from 60 segments or 70k level miles, to a single blanket 300XP.
That your status was "extended" for an extra 3 months, to the end of the following March, has been a fixture of FB from the very beginning. This is to allow themselves enough time to wait for late or delayed flights to post, even after the end of the (currently, fixed for everybody) membership year; create the new cards reflecting everyone's new status, and send them out in time for the "expiry" of all status on 1 April.
Nov 7, 2017, 10:34 am
#500
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
There is no possibility of flights being counted twice. As and of the conversion to XP, the ability to bounce up more than one rung on the basis of a level mile or level segment ends. [The rollover will only allow the "unused" surplus above the threshold to rollover. As such, these XPs didn't help you to attain any status so that is why you can keep them]
Nov 7, 2017, 10:36 am
#501
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
What you imply doesn't seem to make sense, and does indeed sound unusual.
Can you also clearly state what status you EXPECT to have as a result of your 2017 flying?
Thank you!
Nov 7, 2017, 10:36 am
#502
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,064
Not entirely sure I understand what you mean by "a 36XP round-trip J will now require only 22 EU flights".
That makes the FB "one J, plus 22 shorthauls" to Gold - but only if you already have Gold! - look rather bad.
Nov 7, 2017, 10:38 am
#503
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Africa
Programs: FB Gold
Posts: 34
Not that I'd have to worry but,
LAX-CDG-JNB RT in P gives 240 XP per calculator. Previously you'd get a plat straight out.
Personally, I'll do the miles in 2017 to keep gold and the probable 8 segments jan-march 2018 carry over to the new system.
LAX-CDG-JNB RT in P gives 240 XP per calculator. Previously you'd get a plat straight out.
Personally, I'll do the miles in 2017 to keep gold and the probable 8 segments jan-march 2018 carry over to the new system.
Nov 7, 2017, 10:39 am
#504
Join Date: Mar 2016
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum
Posts: 177
If we only consider requalification, it's better if during your normal course of flying do at least 6 segments in Business, or if you fly some longhaul flights.
If you only fly European Y, it's worse if you want to requalify on Silver, go from Silver to Gold, or requalify on Gold, but not by much. It's the same if you want to requalify on Platinum.
It's much worse if you fly domestic a lot, and if you want to go 2 rungs up.
If you only fly European Y, it's worse if you want to requalify on Silver, go from Silver to Gold, or requalify on Gold, but not by much. It's the same if you want to requalify on Platinum.
It's much worse if you fly domestic a lot, and if you want to go 2 rungs up.
I can probably make it pay for itself as I have to do in London but it's not something I'm looking forward to doing.
London is by far the cheapest option for me at around 300€ for a business class flight.
Nov 7, 2017, 10:43 am
#505
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: SJC / SFO
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum; Marriott Bonvoy Platinum; Hilton Gold
Posts: 785
Nov 7, 2017, 10:46 am
#506
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
And that's already comparing the "current" FB to MM. When the "new" FB launches, those starting from nothing have to earn Silver first, before then earning Gold. Given that Silver requires 100XP, whereas Gold requires an additional 180XP (rather than, in the current programme, allowing you to perhaps add just 80 on top of your existing 100 - though of course XPs don't apply, but you understand what I mean, I hope!), that means that achieving Gold from Ivory requires 55% more XPs than the person requiring Gold. How you piece together those XPs can be done in many different ways, some cheaply perhaps, some more cheaply. But the fact remains that - after April 2019, FB changes in that zero to Gold must be earned zero to Silver, then starting from scratch Silver to Gold.
roughly a 55% increase in the effort as compared to today's FB. Which already compares poorly with other Skyteam programmes in that regard, if only considering "mileage running". (FB still marginally wins as regards segment running [AZ requires 60 sectors, whereas FB requires 56 short international sectors] - unless, of course, you are doing domestic sectors [for which you would need 50 (to get 100XP for Silver) followed by another 90 (to get 180XP for Gold)]).
Nov 7, 2017, 10:53 am
#507
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 22
Nov 7, 2017, 10:56 am
#508
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
Hi irishguy28 - thanks for the explanation.
Maybe I am still missing something here, but as I got the Platinum 2016, I was thinking that "my membership year" is 2017, and these 3 months of 2018 are for, as you explained, delayed flights to post. Meanwhile, what FB communicated to me, is that I am going to maintain my status until the end of 2018, 9 months longer than on my card. Still not sure how to understand this.
Maybe I am still missing something here, but as I got the Platinum 2016, I was thinking that "my membership year" is 2017, and these 3 months of 2018 are for, as you explained, delayed flights to post. Meanwhile, what FB communicated to me, is that I am going to maintain my status until the end of 2018, 9 months longer than on my card. Still not sure how to understand this.
Nothing in what you posted indicates anything about the end of 2018.
Can you please post the specific sentence that makes you think they are giving you 9 months of free status?
is it that they say "to keep your platinum level...", and you instead expect to be Gold in 2018?
What status do you expect to have in 2018, on the basis of your current level miles and segments?
Nov 7, 2017, 10:59 am
#509
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,065
But it doesn't. All that happens on that date is that the old modalities are converted to the new XPs. Some people may find that they qualify for a status upgrade at that time; if they do, they will have those XPs deducted and start immediately with a new status.
There is no possibility of flights being counted twice. As and of the conversion to XP, the ability to bounce up more than one rung on the basis of a level mile or level segment ends. [The rollover will only allow the "unused" surplus above the threshold to rollover. As such, these XPs didn't help you to attain any status so that is why you can keep them]
There is no possibility of flights being counted twice. As and of the conversion to XP, the ability to bounce up more than one rung on the basis of a level mile or level segment ends. [The rollover will only allow the "unused" surplus above the threshold to rollover. As such, these XPs didn't help you to attain any status so that is why you can keep them]
But for flights Jan-Mar2018, they will be "counted" at least twice if there is any status change in that period (incl. requalification) - for the reqalification on activity pre-XP and then for requalification on XP.
Silver needs to get 25k miles or 15 segments, that's 125XP or 105XP.
Gold needs to get 40k miles or 30 segments, that's 200XP or 210XP.
Platinum needs to get 70k miles or 60 segments, that's 350XP or 420XP.
If you manage to secure any of these Jan-Apr, then these same flights will also secure you the same level for one more year (so until 2020?) effectively counting them twice. Plus any double-counting on the shortcut as per yesterday (so from Ivory to gold, first 15 counted once, then counted again and next 15 counted once for Gold, and all these level segments then convert to enough XP to get one more Gold and change)
It's starting to sound like too good a deal but then I don't expect that many people will manage to requalify in 3 months
Nov 7, 2017, 11:05 am
#510
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
It does. Not for the flights past April 2018, those will only be counted once no matter what.
But for flights Jan-Mar2018, they will be "counted" at least twice if there is any status change in that period (incl. requalification) - for the reqalification on activity pre-XP and then for requalification on XP.
But for flights Jan-Mar2018, they will be "counted" at least twice if there is any status change in that period (incl. requalification) - for the reqalification on activity pre-XP and then for requalification on XP.
Yes - because under the current rules - in force until 31 March 2018 - any flight in a single membership year *can* have the effect of moving you up more than one rung.
And you seem to acknowledge that this effect - which has been in FB since the start of the programme - ends as of 1 April 2018.
This is why the new FB will be so much less attractive to newcomers, or those interested in attaining status (which is a main feature that runs through the entire programme, given that earning on AFKL is totally dictated by your status level - the number of Miles per euro depends on your status level). It will, for many people, make the earning of status a far longer, more gruelling process than it currently is. [for those simply maintaining an existing status, no real change at all. But the newcomers will be put off. Particularly when no other Skyteam programme that I am aware of operates in the "clear the qualification miles/points/segments each time you go up in status" mode that FB is now, inexplicably, switching to]