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Old Nov 6, 2017, 3:33 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction

As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.

On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).

As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.

Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.

Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points

As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).

For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).

The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).

Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.

The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.

Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)

The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.

Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.

Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).

Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)

Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).

This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.

Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.

Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year

FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).

I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.

In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP). This is only applicable in the first year.

Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)

Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
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Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018

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Old Nov 10, 2017, 3:20 am
  #646  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
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I think the point was if you are flying *only* business, i.e. including short haul. Most of what you have aligned are mainly Y benefits (not objecting that to many people flying C long haul & Y short haul).

I've actually used third baggage only once and that was when I was relocating. And F/P fares even now cost 200000 miles, compared to 62500 / 75000 miles for C, just not worth it (if you fly C and dream of F/P & get an upgrade offer, then I'm sure you'll take it).
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Old Nov 10, 2017, 3:44 am
  #647  
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Originally Posted by brunos
Anyway, it makes it mharder and certainly longer to qualify for Gold. Of course, I have a personal bias. I was considering moving back to AF now that I am reasonably assured to get BEST From HONG KONG. No way that I will do it if it takes me 2 years to reach Gold. Frankly that is silly for anyone new in the future or considering to jump ship. A colleague of mine just qualified from scratch for BA Silver (equivalent to FB Gold again) with just two hkg-cdg in J (720 TP) on BA in three months. Why would he ever consider doing some 5 return from hkg on AF and wait well over a year because the silver reset. The maths are approximate but the meaning is clear. This is silly.
Why is it such a huge issue for someone who flies mostly business? FFP status is only valuable to the extent that it gets you advantages that you do not get from class of travel and FB Gold does not get you much that you do not already get from Premium class flying. Unless you tend to travel with the kitchen sink, the extra baggage will not usually be a major issue if you mostly business anyway so it really boild down to extra award miles. But on that basis, FB was never a shining star anyway as the earn/burn ratio with FB is hardly stellar so if that was your main motivation, then you would not go for FB in the first place anyway.

Also, there is an element of the tail wagging the dog in expecting the FFP to be designed around those switching FFPs. That constituency must represent a tiny proportion of elites.

The new programme is more of a problem for people like me who tend to yo-yo through levels. The programme creates an incentive for me to fly ST a little more regularly not to let my status plummet so as to avoid having to re-build it. I can see the sense of this from AF's perspective.
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Old Nov 10, 2017, 4:02 am
  #648  
 
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Originally Posted by brunos
Anyway, it makes it mharder and certainly longer to qualify for Gold. Of course, I have a personal bias. I was considering moving back to AF now that I am reasonably assured to get BEST From HONG KONG. No way that I will do it if it takes me 2 years to reach Gold. Frankly that is silly for anyone new in the future or considering to jump ship. A colleague of mine just qualified from scratch for BA Silver (equivalent to FB Gold again) with just two hkg-cdg in J (720 TP) on BA in three months. Why would he ever consider doing some 5 return from hkg on AF and wait well over a year because the silver reset. The maths are approximate but the meaning is clear. This is silly.
No need to wait over a year! You can go from Ivory to Platinum (let alone Gold) in less than one year even with the new program. It just takes more flying than before...
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Old Nov 10, 2017, 5:57 am
  #649  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Paris, France
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
FB no longer has "charts"; it moved away from that some time ago.

There won't be charts in the new scheme, as they are making the pricings entirely dynamic. (This could mean that low-demand routes in the same "zones" are habitually priced lower in miles than high-demand routes; just like they have completely different cash prices for "similar" routes in the same zones).

The new redemption rates are to be revealed in the first quarter of 2018, and come into effect in Q3 of 2018.
Thanks
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Old Nov 10, 2017, 6:08 am
  #650  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,064
Originally Posted by NickB
The new programme is more of a problem for people like me who tend to yo-yo through levels.
The new XP roll-over system that everyone now gets (rather than only those who qualified on miles) should reduce yo-yoing a bit.
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Old Nov 10, 2017, 6:27 am
  #651  
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Originally Posted by CyBeR
The new XP roll-over system that everyone now gets (rather than only those who qualified on miles) should reduce yo-yoing a bit.
Unless you dip down to Silver or below; then the "upswing" requires far more flying - more than any potential rollover can offset.

[Not everyone will get a rollover; only those who actually earned their status - including softlanded status - will get a rollover]
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Old Nov 10, 2017, 6:38 am
  #652  
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
[Not everyone will get a rollover; only those who actually earned their status - including softlanded status - will get a rollover]
Have I missed something? FB is not renowned for comping status left, right and centre. Don't over 99% of FB elites actually "earn" their status?
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Old Nov 10, 2017, 6:44 am
  #653  
 
Join Date: May 2009
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Originally Posted by NickB
Have I missed something? FB is not renowned for comping status left, right and centre. Don't over 99% of FB elites actually "earn" their status?
He means those who either re-qualify for their status (i.e., Plat getting over 300XP) or those who do not but gathered enough XP to qualify for the lower level (i.e., Plat getting over 180 but under 300XP).

FB hasn't said it works that way but it is certainly the most logical idea.

When I said "everyone" I meant that in opposition to the current system where only miles-qualifiers get roll-over, and segment-qualifiers get squat.

Last edited by CyBeR; Nov 10, 2017 at 7:04 am
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Old Nov 10, 2017, 8:15 am
  #654  
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Originally Posted by CyBeR
He means those who either re-qualify for their status (i.e., Plat getting over 300XP) or those who do not but gathered enough XP to qualify for the lower level (i.e., Plat getting over 180 but under 300XP).

FB hasn't said it works that way but it is certainly the most logical idea.
Oh, I see. Yes, it does make most sense.
You could even say that, if there was carry-over for those who have not achieved the lower level, then it would be negative carry-over, so thank god that there is no carry-over below the lower threshold.
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Old Nov 10, 2017, 8:22 am
  #655  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Programs: FB Platinum, AS MVP Gold, HH Gold, IHG Gold
Posts: 254
Dear all,

We have published today our infographic on the changes to Flying Blue, this is in french only but please let us know if you have any comment or if we made any mistake.

We tried to make it as clear as possible but it's still very difficult to compare the two programs.

Infographic and article: https://blog.flight-report.com//info...me-flying-blue









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Old Nov 10, 2017, 8:49 am
  #656  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
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That's a very good summary ! Just one comment that could improve the understanding, why not adding the ticket price for the itinerary samples ? This will help people to spot why an eco ticket can earn more miles than a biz (like Y vs O)
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Old Nov 10, 2017, 9:00 am
  #657  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
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Indeed, fare bucket is basically useless for mileage calculation now as there is no standard price for them and the mileage-earning is now price-based.
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Old Nov 10, 2017, 9:10 am
  #658  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Programs: FB Platinum, AS MVP Gold, HH Gold, IHG Gold
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Originally Posted by CyBeR
Indeed, fare bucket is basically useless for mileage calculation now as there is no standard price for them and the mileage-earning is now price-based.
Thank you for your replies

We have detailed the fare class used in the article, but to be even more precise, here are the full fare basis:

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Old Nov 10, 2017, 9:29 am
  #659  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: AMS/LYS
Programs: FB Gold
Posts: 130
Originally Posted by irishguy28
Plus €350 4-segment I tickets on AZ are not exactly easy to come by - unless perhaps you want to get a Russian visa...
Wait, was this ever a thing? I do most of my flying out of SVO and I honestly almost never look at fares on AZ unless I want to go to places like TIA or BEG but if I can get say, a SVO-FCO-CDG return flight in J for 350 euros? Count me in!
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Old Nov 10, 2017, 11:15 am
  #660  
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Originally Posted by RabbitIYH
Wait, was this ever a thing? I do most of my flying out of SVO and I honestly almost never look at fares on AZ unless I want to go to places like TIA or BEG but if I can get say, a SVO-FCO-CDG return flight in J for 350 euros? Count me in!
It's a current thing. Get thee to the "Premium Fare Deals" thread and look for the AZ Scandinavia to Irkutsk thread.
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