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Old Nov 6, 2017, 3:33 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction

As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.

On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).

As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.

Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.

Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points

As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).

For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).

The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).

Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.

The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.

Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)

The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.

Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.

Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).

Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)

Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).

This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.

Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.

Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year

FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).

I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.

In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP). This is only applicable in the first year.

Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)

Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
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Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018

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Old Apr 10, 2018, 7:52 am
  #1396  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Cologne
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I've just booked a ticket to in J to India. All legs are operated by AF and KL but under 9W (jet) flight numbers. I am guessing miles will be awarded based on miles and not $$ spent?
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Old Apr 10, 2018, 7:59 am
  #1397  
 
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Originally Posted by Lewis42
I've just booked a ticket to in J to India. All legs are operated by AF and KL but under 9W (jet) flight numbers. I am guessing miles will be awarded based on miles and not $$ spent?
Yep, you've done it right (in this view)
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Old Apr 11, 2018, 6:49 am
  #1398  
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Originally Posted by Lewis42
I've just booked a ticket to in J to India. All legs are operated by AF and KL but under 9W (jet) flight numbers. I am guessing miles will be awarded based on miles and not $$ spent?
Yes, but you have foregone all XPs.

I don't really get the focus on Award Miles that is prevalent on this forum - FB is such a bad programme that only the EQMs [to borrow that horrible American jargon that normally makes my teeth grind!] are of "interest". I fear that you have made a bad decision in this regard!
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Old Apr 11, 2018, 7:20 am
  #1399  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
Yes, but you have foregone all XPs.

I don't really get the focus on Award Miles that is prevalent on this forum - FB is such a bad programme that only the EQMs [to borrow that horrible American jargon that normally makes my teeth grind!] are of "interest". I fear that you have made a bad decision in this regard!
I find it always relatively easy to use miles. There is often enough availability and especially short European trips have good value.
Remember: from 1st of June, all booking classes are eligible to use miles for an upgrade.
I see it as free money and will book with partner flight numbers so i have the maximum amount of miles on a (heavily) discount Y or J ticket.

I'm still puzzled why FB wants fliers to book at partner airlines rather than themselves. Actually i think they didn't think this through.
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Old Apr 11, 2018, 7:56 am
  #1400  
 
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
Yes, but you have foregone all XPs.

I don't really get the focus on Award Miles that is prevalent on this forum - FB is such a bad programme that only the EQMs [to borrow that horrible American jargon that normally makes my teeth grind!] are of "interest". I fear that you have made a bad decision in this regard!
Award miles have value to me. I use them a lot of personal. I earn enough status miles to maintain what I need / want.

Quick question, for Skyteam flights, you do get XP yeat...?
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Old Apr 11, 2018, 9:37 am
  #1401  
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Originally Posted by Lewis42
Quick question, for Skyteam flights, you do get XP yeat...?
Yes, as long as they are booked in mileage-earning classes. Consult the individual partner pages for details.

For non-Skyteam members - never any XPs though, regardless of whether they earn miles or not. [And by booking an AF or KL flight under a non-Skyteam code, you are effectively going "non-Skyteam" - it must be both marketed and operated by a Skyteam member to count as a Skyteam flight - with the sole exception of AF- and KL-coded (a.k.a. "marketed") flights, which count regardless of the identity of the airline that actually operates the sector!]
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Old Apr 11, 2018, 9:45 am
  #1402  
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Originally Posted by Thijs Luyt
I find it always relatively easy to use miles.
That is one upside of a largely lousy programme! I was able to snag a ticket using miles for a last-minute change of plans for this weekend, and in such cases - when the price in pure cash is double what I am comfortable paying for a KLM shorthaul route - then it's a no-brainer.

However, FB is incredibly poor value in comparison to, say, BA Executive Club. You earn far less and must burn far more to make comparable redemptions. And yes, availability is an issue there - because it is a popular and well-used programme - but, as with any programme, you learn to play it for its strengths.

Originally Posted by Thijs Luyt
Remember: from 1st of June, all booking classes are eligible to use miles for an upgrade.
I see it as free money and will book with partner flight numbers so i have the maximum amount of miles on a (heavily) discount Y or J ticket.
Probably of more interest to those who didn't pay for their ticket in the first place. I don't find it an "efficient" use of miles; but then I have the luxury of generally being able to plan my trips well in advance and therefore pay the lowest possible price, or book the ticket using miles at the moment it becomes available to book.


Originally Posted by Thijs Luyt
I'm still puzzled why FB wants fliers to book at partner airlines rather than themselves. Actually i think they didn't think this through.
Again, I think you over-estimate the number of flyers who notice such things and would be spurred into that type of behaviour...

I have a colleague who books an annual trip for the entire family on a Skyteam airline in Premium Economy to Asia - and has done for the last 13 years [ok, so for the first few years it was in Economy only] so that's a considerable amount of mileage gone to waste - but never bothers to sign up for any programme or collect the miles. He won't even bother to check-in online in advance. (And trust me - I explain to him why this is foolish at every opportunity!)
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Old Apr 11, 2018, 1:45 pm
  #1403  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
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I see these changes as good if you fly business class more often, but if your flying economy, then I don't see much of a change between the program, only good benefits. The potential downsides might be on longer domestic US flights: AMS-TXL will give 5XP. but JFK - LAX will only give 2XP...

PRE Changes:
-70 flights to reach platinum status: 17 round trip flights between BHX and CPH + 2 extra flights
-BHX-AMS: 1 flight
-AMS-JFK: 1 flight
-17 round trip flights to JFK from BHX + 2 extra flights.

POST Changes
-300XP to reach platinum status: 15 round trip flights between BHX and CPH
-BHX - AMS = 5XP
-AMS - CPH = 5XP

-BHX - AMS = 5XP
-AMS - JFK = 10XP
-Round trip between BHX and JFK = 30XP
-10 round trip flights between BHX and JFK for Platinum.

Last edited by George Moore; Apr 11, 2018 at 1:46 pm Reason: Moving it around
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Old Apr 11, 2018, 2:06 pm
  #1404  
 
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Welcome to Flyertalk George Moore!

For me, the XP changes is good and a welcome change. However, for my travel patterns, the change in earning structure on AFKL coded flights is not a pleasant change as I typically buy cheap business tickets so my mileage earning has been hit hard.
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Old Apr 11, 2018, 4:06 pm
  #1405  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
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If you fly business class the XPs actually don't matter as the perks related to the status reached through them (Gold or Plat) are not more than those that you have as a business class passenger anyhow.

What counts is the earned miles, as those generate the real paybacks (award flights) - and those are less now.

So, my conclusion is that even for business bookers, the program deteriorated.
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Old Apr 12, 2018, 12:52 am
  #1406  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Originally Posted by George Moore
I see these changes as good if you fly business class more often, but if your flying economy, then I don't see much of a change between the program, only good benefits. The potential downsides might be on longer domestic US flights: AMS-TXL will give 5XP. but JFK - LAX will only give 2XP...

PRE Changes:
-70 flights to reach platinum status: 17 round trip flights between BHX and CPH + 2 extra flights
-BHX-AMS: 1 flight
-AMS-JFK: 1 flight
-17 round trip flights to JFK from BHX + 2 extra flights.

POST Changes
-300XP to reach platinum status: 15 round trip flights between BHX and CPH
-BHX - AMS = 5XP
-AMS - CPH = 5XP

-BHX - AMS = 5XP
-AMS - JFK = 10XP
-Round trip between BHX and JFK = 30XP
-10 round trip flights between BHX and JFK for Platinum.
Pretty sure before the change over (April 1st) it was only 60 flights required to reach platinum therefore only 15 round trips were required.
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Old Apr 12, 2018, 1:36 am
  #1407  
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Quote from Irishguy28:
"Again, I think you over-estimate the number of flyers who notice such things and would be spurred into that type of behaviour...

I have a colleague who books an annual trip for the entire family on a Skyteam airline in Premium Economy to Asia - and has done for the last 13 years [ok, so for the first few years it was in Economy only] so that's a considerable amount of mileage gone to waste - but never bothers to sign up for any programme or collect the miles. He won't even bother to check-in online in advance. (And trust me - I explain to him why this is foolish at every opportunity!)"

Indeed, there are some people who do not care about miles, but that is becoming rare among frequent flyers. And for the many infrequent flyers who don't care, it does not matter what are FB features. For example, if you only travel once a year with your family in Y, or even in PE, you should not care about miles as there is no family household in FB and 10 or 20 thousands miles per account gets you nowhere. Too much hassle for the possible gain. For example, I have never been able to book a domestic award when I needed it, so 60K sit idle in wifey's and mine account and get progressively devalued.
Sure, my attitude towards FB miles would be different if I were to direct my extensive longhaul travel to ST. But the limited availability of flat J beds, the change in FB meaning that I would have to go through the silver qualification hoop (while all my family is OW Emerald), and the strike proclivity means that I won't do it in the foreseeable future.

Each flyer is different and in that sense marginal. But the AFKL clientele is made of an ocean of marginals. A FFP should try to attract most marginals. Creating a silly feature that incite some marginals to fly other airlines rather than AFKL is not smart. On the other hand, I understand that it is difficult to design earning rules based on paid amounts for partner airlines. I am sure that AFKL management are aware of these quirks and will progressively adjust as the program is being implemented.

Last edited by brunos; Apr 12, 2018 at 1:50 am
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Old Apr 12, 2018, 1:51 am
  #1408  
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Originally Posted by Billyfergus
Pretty sure before the change over (April 1st) it was only 60 flights required to reach platinum therefore only 15 round trips were required.
Correct.
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Old Apr 12, 2018, 2:02 am
  #1409  
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Originally Posted by brunos
Creating a silly feature that incite some marginals to fly other airlines rather than AFKL is not smart.
I think we agree that there is only a small percentage of people that will pick up on or even notice this "feature", so I find that "incite" is really too strong a word in this context.

If, by "marginal", you mean the type of person that is aware of programmes and in the game to use programmes to their best potential - which is how everyone should use the programmes, but it's probably a good thing for those of us who do that not everyone takes the same care - if the programme was being "worked" wholesale by every member, then changes would be very quickly implemented to close off any loopholes and to abolish any sweet spots. These type of "marginal" members are like "floating voters" - they can never be permanently caught. (Or, the means to catch them would not be economical for the airlines).

I really think any decent "marginal" should be chasing miles in a different programme!!! That said, there are no good programmes in Skyteam anymore, which is why I am stuck back with FB

And anyway, even for "solid" AFKL flyers - I am sure that a large proportion are members of at least one other frequent flyer programme, and also spend money on other airlines. AFKL can't fulfil every travel wish.

I dally with all 3 alliances, and the changes (abolition of level segments in favour of XPs) will actually have the effect of making me more likely to fly paid J on Skyteam (that new Delta suite on the A350 is calling me!!!), where previously my longhaul and business flying was almost exclusively given over to oneworld and Star.

I'm also a little surprised at the expectation that people seem to have that the programme should "make sense". Given that FB is the native FFP of Tarom, Aircalin and Kenya Airways, why are they not also awarding miles on ticket price, as AFKL do? To me, that is a much bigger "discrepancy" than all this change really is - a way for AFKL to reduce their generosity on their own tickets.
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Last edited by irishguy28; Apr 12, 2018 at 2:08 am
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Old Apr 12, 2018, 5:45 am
  #1410  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United Kingdom
Programs: FlyingBlue
Posts: 51
I suppose it depends on what you want from a frequent flyer program: If you want more miles, and not so much status, then these changes are bad. If you care more about status, and the benefits worldwide, then there is virtually no change.
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