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Old Nov 6, 2017, 3:33 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction

As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.

On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).

As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.

Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.

Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points

As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).

For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).

The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).

Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.

The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.

Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)

The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.

Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.

Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).

Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)

Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).

This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.

Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.

Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year

FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).

I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.

In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP). This is only applicable in the first year.

Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)

Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
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Old Nov 6, 2017, 2:24 pm
  #346  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,064
Originally Posted by dimitriyremerov
By the way, is it true that any SkyTeam flight will earn XP points now? No exceptions with Czech/Chinese airlines which earn 0% anymore?
We don't yet have a definitive answer to this, but the current assumption is that fares which do not currently earn level miles will not earn XP.
CyBeR is offline  
Old Nov 6, 2017, 2:25 pm
  #347  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: MME (midway between NCL and LBA)
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Good article here by The Flying Dutchboy including quotes from Flying Blue Program Director Derrick Merkus.

https://insideflyer.nl/flying-blue-r...starting-2018/
tigertanaka is offline  
Old Nov 6, 2017, 2:26 pm
  #348  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
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Originally Posted by dimitriyremerov
By the way, is it true that any SkyTeam flight will earn XP points now? No exceptions with Czech/Chinese airlines which earn 0% anymore?
Flying blue partner earnings pages aren't updated yet (still showing level miles).
Sjondorn is offline  
Old Nov 6, 2017, 2:26 pm
  #349  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS, BRU, POA
Programs: Skyteam E+ (FB PfL), Latam Black, LH MM, Iberia plus, HH: Diamond, Marriott Bonvoy: Plat
Posts: 1,124
Originally Posted by dimitriyremerov
By the way, is it true that any SkyTeam flight will earn XP points now? No exceptions with Czech/Chinese airlines which earn 0% anymore?
No, a 0% earning fare will generate 0 XP's.
wuzziduzziman is offline  
Old Nov 6, 2017, 2:29 pm
  #350  
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Originally Posted by CyBeR
This is undisputed. It's also only really an issue for people who do one short burst of flying and then stop being able to qualify. Anyone who would otherwise qualify for gold/plat multiple years in a row will still get there -- just delayed by some measure (unless they really go overboard and manage the full 580XP in one year.)
But that's my point...the amount required shouldn't be 580XP. The amounts required should have been reduced (at least somewhat) in recognition of the fact that this balance gets reset so much more "easily".

or, put it another way - in the old scheme, a Platinum needed 70k miles/60 segments in 12 months in order to get Platinum. But anybody else - whether starting from Ivory, Silver, or Gold - would also end up with Platinum for doing the same thing as was required of that Platinum.

Now, however, a Platinum needs 300XP in at least 12 months to get Platinum. A Gold similarly needs 300XP in at least 12 months to get Platinum.

But a Silver needs 480XP in a period that can run from between 0 and 24 months to get Platinum. [I suppose you could say that this works out at an "easier" 240XP over each of two years to get to Platinum]

An Ivory needs 100XP + 180XP + 300XP = 580XP in a period that can run from between 0 and 36 months in order to get to Platinum [which, again, works out at an "easier" 120XP per year over each of three years to get Platinum].

So - OK. I admit that the "new" system is perhaps better for those who, under the old scheme, may have struggled to earn the highest status levels. But, in their case, they will then struggle to maintain that status, so will probably end up bobbing up and down in status occasionally. (i.e. the 120XP that got the Ivory to Platinum over 3 years is nowhere close enough to keep them at Platinum)

HOWEVER....this is somewhat misleading, as you need a greater level of flying in order to actually get up to the higher levels. Here's an example of an Ivory starting from scratch and having a consistent 120XP earning each year.

Ivory at start of Year 1. Earn 120XP. End the year as Silver, with 20XP carried over
Silver at start of Year 2. Earn 120XP. End the year as Silver, with 40XP carried over.
Silver at start of Year 3. Earn 120XP. End the year as Silver, with 60XP carried over.
Silver at start of Year 4. Earn 120XP. End the year as Gold, with 0XP carried over.
Gold at start of year 5. Earn 120XP. End the year as Silver [soft landing, but earned anyway by exceeding the 100XP threshold], with 20XP carried over.
Silver at start of year 6. Earn 120XP. End the year as Silver, with 40XP carried over

Here's an Ivory earning a steady 240XP each "calendar" year
Ivory at start of Calendar Year 1. Earn 240 XP in the calendar year. End that calendar year as Silver, with 140XP (240-100 for silver).
Silver at start of Calendar Year 2. Earn 240XP in the calendar year. At some point, will earn Gold [when 180XP is reached]. The remaining 200XP is, however, not enough for Platinum.
Gold at start of Calendar Year 3, with the remaining 200XP still valid, but only for a short period until the anniversary of having turned Gold. Earn 240XP in the calendar year. 60 of these require to be booked by the "anniversary" of reaching Gold, otherwise Platinum will not be achieved this year. There are two outcomes possible - remaining at Gold, with another high XP rollover, or getting to Platinum already this year.

It becomes too complex to analyse when there is no longer an alignment to the calendar year. But having less than a steady 300XP per year would be required to consistently maintain Platinum...
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Old Nov 6, 2017, 2:31 pm
  #351  
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Originally Posted by tigertanaka
Good article here by The Flying Dutchboy including quotes from Flying Blue Program Director Derrick Merkus.

https://insideflyer.nl/flying-blue-r...starting-2018/
It's a shame he doesn't post these links here, himself!
irishguy28 is offline  
Old Nov 6, 2017, 2:33 pm
  #352  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Preferably waiting for takeoff
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Posts: 458
Originally Posted by jimmygottfredson
The number of classic awards is far less than Flex awards ... and is one of the reasons I was considering joining and participating in Flying Blue.
Originally Posted by irishguy28
I'm not sure that's currently correct. There was a time when there was a fixed mileage amount for classic awards, and a fixed mileage amount for Flex awards, and when they were gone, they were gone.

Then they moved to a more flexible pricing scheme - at least for Classic Awards - where the advertised price is a "starting from" amount, and can vary quite substantially. I believe that the number of Classic Awards made available is still more than the number of Flex Awards (if only because, for any sane person, booking a Flex Award should be an exceptional event).
Not trying to debate a small point, but Classic or Partner awards (whatever you want to call them) are far less available than internal Flying Blue awards. If this wasn't the case, I would just stay with DL and happily redeem via SkyMiles; but most of the time AF awards are not available after a couple months on the schedule (lower inventory gets scarfed up).

irishguy28 thanks for all the feedback and I think you answered my question. From reading the thread it seems like:

1. FB partners have a smaller subset of awards they can redeem on.
2. FB members have a larger (or with the new program total) inventory of awards to redeem from.
3. If a person wants to redeem Air France and KLM awards, the Flying Blue program gives you the most choice and availability. This is true on the old program as well as the new.

If I have it wrong, I stand ready to be educated.
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Old Nov 6, 2017, 2:34 pm
  #353  
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Originally Posted by Sjondorn
Flying blue partner earnings pages aren't updated yet (still showing level miles).
The tables are what will remain valid; they don't show level miles at all.

They show the rate at which AWARD miles are earned; it just so happens that level miles are earned at the same rates.

Given that only those fare classes shown as earning AWARD miles currently earn level miles, so the thinking is that only these classes will earn XPs. However, when XPs are earned, the rate of earning is not dictated by the partner earning page, but by the single XP earning table.

(Until such time as they publish separate XP rates for partners, but this doesn't seem to be the intention)
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Old Nov 6, 2017, 2:36 pm
  #354  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,064
Originally Posted by irishguy28
It becomes too complex to analyse when there is no longer an alignment to the calendar year. But having less than a steady 300XP per year would be required to consistently maintain Platinum...
So your point is that it is now easier to qualify for status levels accidentally?
CyBeR is offline  
Old Nov 6, 2017, 2:40 pm
  #355  
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Originally Posted by jimmygottfredson
Not trying to debate a small point, but Classic or Partner awards (whatever you want to call them) are far less available than internal Flying Blue awards. If this wasn't the case, I would just stay with DL and happily redeem via SkyMiles; but most of the time AF awards are not available after a couple months on the schedule (lower inventory gets scarfed up).
but again, that's a function of the other programme, not of Flying Blue.

The partner programme, as you seem to wish to paint it, still "wants" Classic Awards to all be available at the lowest possible rate only, and will only sell those awards at that rate. This was, indeed, the only way that FB Classic Awards were made available in the past (well over 5 years ago now). Now, however, they are made available on a sliding scale, so the majority are only available for paying far more in miles than the old rate which may live on as a "starting from" rate.

It would not be fair if Skymiles (which is where I assume you are coming from) was able to take the ALL the classic awards available, at the higher/variable rates that they are now made available to FB redeemers, and were made available to Skymiles redeemers at the single, lowest possible (and previously, the only possible) mileage amount.

That Skymiles has failed to adapt to the changing FB programme is, presumably, Skymiles' own decision.

Skymiles can also adapt, if it wants to. If it chooses not to, it is hardly FB's fault.

If FB members are being forced to dig deeper to pay for the extra award seats, why should other partners get access to these seats at the old/lower rate? Everyone is in the hunt for seats, and the cheapest "starting rate" tickets are harder to find given that seats can now also be offered at higher prices. Skymiles could similarly increase their prices, to offer these "extra" seats to their customers, just as FB does - but they obviously don't want to do so.
irishguy28 is offline  
Old Nov 6, 2017, 2:42 pm
  #356  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: MAN
Programs: FB Platinum
Posts: 313
On the AF website, my Man-Cdg-Lax rtn flight in W (flying in April but booked last week) is now reported as "Miles earned on this trip (estimated total provided for reference only) : 11 760 Miles"; this morning it was still registering 27k miles.

This seems a drastic reduction. Any explanations?

Edit: Just used the miles calculator! 8xprice in Euro seems about right.

Last edited by PeteM01; Nov 6, 2017 at 3:26 pm
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Old Nov 6, 2017, 2:43 pm
  #357  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: WAW
Programs: FB plat, M&M FT
Posts: 140
Not exactly a good news (even though I somewhat like a better recognition for the long haul segments) but definitely one that makes you check out other SkyTeam FF programmes... so, looks like Air Europa's Suma is there with a SkyTeam Elite + card for 26 segments flown?
Dominikkk is offline  
Old Nov 6, 2017, 2:43 pm
  #358  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: In between BRU, AMS, DUS and LUX...
Programs: AF/KL Plat, BA Gold, A3 Gold, IHG Diamond, MR Gold, HH Diamond, ALL Platinum
Posts: 1,044
Like some others, I am quite sad to see the dynamic award pricing coming up. I currently have almost one million FB miles, and I feel those significantly and suddently lost quite some value... Since I mostly travel with AF/KL within Europe and qualify by segments, I think I should consider a priority pass card and go for the cheapest, which is clearly not always AF/KL/A5...
palmanfr is offline  
Old Nov 6, 2017, 2:44 pm
  #359  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: MME (midway between NCL and LBA)
Programs: BA Gold, AF/KL Gold, Hilton Gold, Nordic Choice Gold
Posts: 744
Originally Posted by irishguy28
It's a shame he doesn't post these links here, himself!
Apologies I missed that one but we seem to be going over the same things over and over again and this article explains it really well.

I thought I had read through this thread properly but I defer to the person who has written 30% of the posts today.
tigertanaka is offline  
Old Nov 6, 2017, 2:44 pm
  #360  
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Location: Netherlands
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Originally Posted by CyBeR
So your point is that it is now easier to qualify for status levels accidentally?
No. Earning status is now in most cases harder - whether the FB member wants to, or does so "accidentally" (no idea where you pulled that word/aspect from).
irishguy28 is offline  


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