Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#271
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,064
Consider the alternative of points not resetting: literally everyone would reach silver eventually.
#274
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,064
#275
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Preferably waiting for takeoff
Programs: AA EXP, MVPG, DL Silver, United Silver, Accor Platinum, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 458
With a full move to dynamic pricing, this makes these categories somewhat meaningless.
Going forward, you pay based on the demand and the availability. Whether they give you the option to "pay more" miles in order to avoid the €45 cancel/change fee remains to be seen.
Going forward, you pay based on the demand and the availability. Whether they give you the option to "pay more" miles in order to avoid the €45 cancel/change fee remains to be seen.
If all awards are available to partner programs going forward, I think many flyers would choose to fly AF/KLM through partner redemptions. Is there any word if Classic and Flex awards will be preserved in the new scheme?
#276
Join Date: May 2010
Programs: Delta Silver, HH Gold, Accor Gold, IHG Platinum
Posts: 5,342
Aside from the Promo Awards, award tickets will be available until the last seat. There is no need for award availability anymore which used to be the case when redeeming a classic award. Of course this is reflected in the price which will move towards the old Flex. How they will deal with changing or cancelling an Award I don't know.
#277
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,085
Because if you don't requalify, your points get set to 0. There is only roll-over if you re-qualify, or qualify for a higher level. Thus, at Plat, 300 points get subtracted (or failing that, as many as there are.)
Consider the alternative of points not resetting: literally everyone would reach silver eventually.
Consider the alternative of points not resetting: literally everyone would reach silver eventually.
These categories are not meaningless. A classic award can be redeemed by partner programs. A Flex award for ELITES can only be redeemed by Flying Blue elites. The number of classic awards is far less than Flex awards ... and is one of the reasons I was considering joining and participating in Flying Blue.
If all awards are available to partner programs going forward, I think many flyers would choose to fly AF/KLM through partner redemptions. Is there any word if Classic and Flex awards will be preserved in the new scheme?
If all awards are available to partner programs going forward, I think many flyers would choose to fly AF/KLM through partner redemptions. Is there any word if Classic and Flex awards will be preserved in the new scheme?
Other arrangements seem to stay the same way, so I guess AFKL will still release classic inventory to other ST FFPs, as other ST airlines will release inventory for FB redeeming.
#278
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: AMS
Programs: Hilton Diamond, FB Plat
Posts: 312
It therefore seems that we are all in agreement - instead of extra level segments and/or the possibility to earn level miles based on any kind of spend, the only qualification bonus to be derived from the FB Amexes in the new programme will be the addition of 15/30/60 XPs to your account on the anniversary of your Amex renewal date.
I like the new program overall, but this is a massive letdown for me.
#280
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 493
I have the French American Express Flying Blue Gold card
its annual renewal is in February, I'm thinking about dumping it to get a traditional Amex Gold card
what do you think ?
Flying Blue is getting worst and worst and I am pretty sure the Amex won't get me any perk with FB
its annual renewal is in February, I'm thinking about dumping it to get a traditional Amex Gold card
what do you think ?
Flying Blue is getting worst and worst and I am pretty sure the Amex won't get me any perk with FB
#281
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: France
Programs: FB Plat for Life, UAMP, BAEC, Accor ALL Platinum, Marriott silver, Hilton, Meliá silver.
Posts: 3,120
For example, on a given flight, there may be seats available for a FB member and not for a Skymiles member.
The changes are affecting FB, not Skymiles or any other programme.
What makes you think that the situation would change for partner programmes?
#283
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,750
I would advise waiting until such time as Amex contacts cardholders to bring the changes to their attention.
#284
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,750
However, even if there were some individual flights in there on KL- or AF- flightcodes, the fact that it was on a non AFKL ticket stock would, I think, mean that they use the "old" AF/KL table to determine earning on that flight. (They would not be able to break down the earning for just that constituent flight, and would not give you the entire earning based on the total ticket price for that one flight).
#285
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,064
That would be a complete -- and interesting -- departure from the current earning model though. Maybe it's right -- it would be better for customers of course.