Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#256
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,750
#257
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,940
But that only says you can continue to earn Miles (formerly: Award Miles) on your daily purchases. No-one doubts that you will continue to earn (Award) Miles based on your spend.
There is no explicit mention of earning XPs (Level Miles) based on spend on AFKL, or any other source. As such, I think you are reading far too much into that screenshot.
There is no explicit mention of earning XPs (Level Miles) based on spend on AFKL, or any other source. As such, I think you are reading far too much into that screenshot.
For the 2nd part (in bold), that’s not wat I said and yes, it is clear that there is no more “status miles” (even if we should not use this term anymore) or “status XPs” coming with AFKL purchases with Amex. Only the annual XPs depending on silver/gold/Plat Amex.
#258
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,940
For the issue of long domestic sectors in J/F in the US or Russia, may be they didn’t realize that and will change the XP earning scheme for those cases.
#259
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,750
for the 1st part of your post, yes I agree but reading the whole thread, I had the impression that there would be only the XP scheme with the Amex and no more (regular) miles with the daily purchases. And that is clear in the Q&A, hence why I posted it in the forum.
For the 2nd part (in bold), that’s not wat I said and yes, it is clear that there is no more “status miles” (even if we should not use this term anymore) or “status XPs” coming with AFKL purchases with Amex. Only the annual XPs depending on silver/gold/Plat Amex.
For the 2nd part (in bold), that’s not wat I said and yes, it is clear that there is no more “status miles” (even if we should not use this term anymore) or “status XPs” coming with AFKL purchases with Amex. Only the annual XPs depending on silver/gold/Plat Amex.
The only use I would ever have seen for an FB Amex, other than the fact that it keeps miles alive, is that it helped to make qualification easier. For some (maybe not all?) FB Amexes, this also involved earning level miles based on AFKL spend. And this, I thought, was the issue uppermost in other's minds.
It therefore seems that we are all in agreement - instead of extra level segments and/or the possibility to earn level miles based on any kind of spend, the only qualification bonus to be derived from the FB Amexes in the new programme will be the addition of 15/30/60 XPs to your account on the anniversary of your Amex renewal date.
#260
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,750
#261
Join Date: Jun 2017
Programs: FB Plat
Posts: 195
And I’m not necessarily optimistic knowing that we are talking about dynamic pricing and that award seats will be available until the last seat available (even if I like this idea, along with the cash and miles option). I know it concerns a very low number of persons but we’ll loose a lot of miles with the new system when traveling in P :-(
#262
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NUE
Programs: *G (TK elite+), OW sapphire (QR), ST elite plus (AF). LA black
Posts: 3,687
don't think so - I guess Delta wants US flyers in their program, so they make flying blue very unattractive for US frequent flyers. Same might be valid for Aeroflot.
#263
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: Flying Blue Silver
Posts: 123
Very interesting changes. My biggest concern is the new award program. I have read through the whole thread but few points are still unclear (also from the Wiki):
1. Dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV): currently a one-way in Y to the US costs 25k. In the new scheme it will depend on the location and be aligned to the cash price you'd be paying. Does it mean one-way awards will then be much more expensive (since today cash-buying a TATL one-way could cost almost as much or even more than a TATL return)?
2. The validity of miles earned through non-airline partners, e.g. hotel point conversion, is not clear. Will they expire after two years even for Elites?
3. Assessment of my current situation: I will become Plat for the first time in December, so my status should be valid until March 2019. Due to most likely changing flight and airline patterns it is unlikely I will even qualify for Gold in 2018. I would however softland to Gold until the end of 2019. Let's assume I gather 120 XP in 2018. My understanding is that by April 2019 (where I softland to Gold) I still have my 120 XP (as it's not necessary to qualify for Silver and hence the 100 XP are not deducted) and I have the rest of 2019 (until my Gold expires) to get the XP up to 180. Is this your understanding as well?
Thanks in advance.
1. Dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV): currently a one-way in Y to the US costs 25k. In the new scheme it will depend on the location and be aligned to the cash price you'd be paying. Does it mean one-way awards will then be much more expensive (since today cash-buying a TATL one-way could cost almost as much or even more than a TATL return)?
2. The validity of miles earned through non-airline partners, e.g. hotel point conversion, is not clear. Will they expire after two years even for Elites?
3. Assessment of my current situation: I will become Plat for the first time in December, so my status should be valid until March 2019. Due to most likely changing flight and airline patterns it is unlikely I will even qualify for Gold in 2018. I would however softland to Gold until the end of 2019. Let's assume I gather 120 XP in 2018. My understanding is that by April 2019 (where I softland to Gold) I still have my 120 XP (as it's not necessary to qualify for Silver and hence the 100 XP are not deducted) and I have the rest of 2019 (until my Gold expires) to get the XP up to 180. Is this your understanding as well?
Thanks in advance.
#265
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: mostly not far from AMS, otherwise NUE
Programs: FB Silver, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,381
It therefore seems that we are all in agreement - instead of extra level segments and/or the possibility to earn level miles based on any kind of spend, the only qualification bonus to be derived from the FB Amexes in the new programme will be the addition of 15/30/60 XPs to your account on the anniversary of your Amex renewal date.
#266
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,089
Well some people might still want to have that FB status. FB AMEX Gold/Plat earns extra 4/8 qualifying flights per year I believe. For some member who doesn't fly too often with AF/KL could be more advantageous than you thought - but otherwise you're right.
Also, I believe FB Silver is somehow worthier than the useless LH FTL. I myself am FB Silver but I don't know too much benefits of that either because I seldomly fly ST. But do you get a free bag even if you purchase Mini tarif?
Also, I believe FB Silver is somehow worthier than the useless LH FTL. I myself am FB Silver but I don't know too much benefits of that either because I seldomly fly ST. But do you get a free bag even if you purchase Mini tarif?
The free bag is a point for AFKL as such vs. LH, not silver/silver - as not even senators get free bag on LH Group light fares. On non-light, FTL also get a free extra bag.
If you mean PFL then yes, at least for now.
Hi,
I've read through this thread and as far as I can tell this is a negative change for my travels or have I miscalculated this as I'm working out how much worse off I'll be. Just looking at the Level Miles/XP aspect.
...
As an extreme example (beyond my budget) AF First CDG-SIN in the old system using Sub-Class P would need 2.34 flights to get Platinum (70,000LM / 29,966LM) and Sub-Class F 3.50 flights (70,000LM / 19,977LM). Whereas the new system would require 5 AF First CDG-SIN flights to (300XP/ 60XP).
I've read through this thread and as far as I can tell this is a negative change for my travels or have I miscalculated this as I'm working out how much worse off I'll be. Just looking at the Level Miles/XP aspect.
...
As an extreme example (beyond my budget) AF First CDG-SIN in the old system using Sub-Class P would need 2.34 flights to get Platinum (70,000LM / 29,966LM) and Sub-Class F 3.50 flights (70,000LM / 19,977LM). Whereas the new system would require 5 AF First CDG-SIN flights to (300XP/ 60XP).
Exception for this are sortof segment qualifiers on cheap euro and mainly on domestic segments as they'll need to fly more than before. For domestic, very very much more! Take a French person living in the country somewhere, and travelling to Paris each month, he'd have 24/30 on this travel, add a personal flight or two and he's Gold. Now, his 12 returns to Paris only give him 48XP; he isn't even halfway to Silver, let alone requalification for Gold.
#267
Join Date: Sep 2016
Programs: Flying Blue, Accor Le Club, Hilton HHonors, Hertz Gold Plus, Avis Preferred
Posts: 477
I believe it was done on purpose to make sure FB is unattractive to DL domestic flyers and make sure they go with Skymiles.
#268
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,064
3. Assessment of my current situation: I will become Plat for the first time in December, so my status should be valid until March 2019. Due to most likely changing flight and airline patterns it is unlikely I will even qualify for Gold in 2018. I would however softland to Gold until the end of 2019. Let's assume I gather 120 XP in 2018. My understanding is that by April 2019 (where I softland to Gold) I still have my 120 XP (as it's not necessary to qualify for Silver and hence the 100 XP are not deducted) and I have the rest of 2019 (until my Gold expires) to get the XP up to 180. Is this your understanding as well?
#269
Join Date: May 2010
Programs: Delta Silver, HH Gold, Accor Gold, IHG Platinum
Posts: 5,342
I think it's a deliberate policy which focuses more on AF(KL) flyers and less on domestic flyers in the US, China and Russia.
#270
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,089
My expectation here is that at the end of 2018 (assuming they set the reset at Dec 31 for everyone who is already qualified at some level before April), since they will have you try to re-qualify for Plat, they will subtract 300XP from your total, landing you at zero for 2019, and a soft landing to Gold.
So after end of 2018, soft land to Gold and 120XP rollover to work towards requal or potentially upgrade.
Wonder if there will be any grace period or it will be strictly 12 months for the status.