Nov 6, 2017, 3:33 am
Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
Nov 6, 2017, 1:36 pm
#331
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
This is based on the idea from #4 that XP roll over even if you go down a level.
That is what I said in a different post but I was corrected.
Since FB hasn't written down their policy, we can't really know for sure what the deal is. I'm inclined to agree with your way of thinking as that was my initial idea too. Not resetting unless you qualify for something would, as I said before, mean that literally everyone who flies at all will at some point reach silver, even if only for one year. (It may take some people 10 years to do it but they will get there.)
That is what I said in a different post but I was corrected.
Since FB hasn't written down their policy, we can't really know for sure what the deal is. I'm inclined to agree with your way of thinking as that was my initial idea too. Not resetting unless you qualify for something would, as I said before, mean that literally everyone who flies at all will at some point reach silver, even if only for one year. (It may take some people 10 years to do it but they will get there.)
There is no way they will give you a soft landing, and a "rollover" when you didn't have enough XP to earn that level.
Nov 6, 2017, 1:37 pm
#332
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,065
That looks wrong to me.
If you are Platinum and end the year on 280XP, you get a soft landing to Gold, but they will take away 180XP for the privilege. (Remember that previously, they would have cleared this counter to zero! They won't allow you to start the new year with an untouched 180XP balance - which would amount to giving you two full years to aim for the 300XP Platinum threshold, an amount which is supposed to amassed in a single year). You would start with 100XP in this case.
If you are Platinum and end the year on 280XP, you get a soft landing to Gold, but they will take away 180XP for the privilege. (Remember that previously, they would have cleared this counter to zero! They won't allow you to start the new year with an untouched 180XP balance - which would amount to giving you two full years to aim for the 300XP Platinum threshold, an amount which is supposed to amassed in a single year). You would start with 100XP in this case.
Besides, it doesn't give you 2 years to aim for 300XP platinum treshold, you need to do 300XP to requalify as Platinum every year. The other year you would just be Gold. That's no different than being Platinum, missing requalification, and then qualifying again from Gold. Except now segments roll over with miles. Even if you don't qualify.
So in effect, if you try to requalify for Platinum but fail, you are penalized over someone who didn't try to qualify at all. That doesn't make sense IMO
Nov 6, 2017, 1:37 pm
#333
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,064
As a current Platinum I will start 2018 with 9858 Level Miles crried over from 2017 and maintain Platinum status and after some flights in Q1 2018 I will have 52,529 Level Miles at the 1st April 2018 for the change to the new FB system. If I have this correct that will convert to XP as follows:
(52,529 / 1,000) * 5 = 263XP
Does that mean I drop down to Gold on 1st April?
Thanks.
(52,529 / 1,000) * 5 = 263XP
Does that mean I drop down to Gold on 1st April?
Thanks.
It's the same as the current system though -- soft landings only apply if you don't have enough level miles or segments to qualify for even the next level down. That is, a plat who fails to meet the requirements for gold gets a soft landing to gold. A plat who fails to meet the requirements for plat but meets the requirements for gold, also gets gold. The new addition is that excess XP for gold get rolled-over.
Truthfully I think the way irishguy28 and I explain this system is more likely to be what FB has meant when they said rollover upon downgrade, but since your way is better for the customer (i.e., us) I'd prefer to be wrong.
Nov 6, 2017, 1:40 pm
#334
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
(The issue of "rollover" with soft landing appears to be a red herring; I believe the intention will be only to rollover any balance in excess of the level granted in the status level, i.e. only those that "earned it" outright will get a rollover, in which case they don't really benefit from a soft-landing - just as in the old system, if you had earned enough segments/level miles for that lower level in your membership year, you were just earning something that was going to be yours anyway, and you lose those level miles/segments as there was no rollover.
Nov 6, 2017, 1:42 pm
#335
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
And not how the system will work, I think.
In fact, you only get a "soft landing" if you fail even to make the threshold for the level below the one you were aiming for.
Those who get a rollover, while declining in status, actually exceeded that required threshold - so they actually "earned" that status, so don't actually get a soft landing.
Nov 6, 2017, 1:45 pm
#336
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,065
It can be a good thing.
If I do 10 segments in Oct, 10 in Nov and 8 in Dec, under old rules I start from 0 and get to gold wherever I get to it. I would have gotten to get Gold for only 15 extra segments if I managed, but I didn't.
By new rules, my 13 extra segments are counted, so I get to enjoy Gold sooner.
If I do 10 segments in Oct, 10 in Nov and 8 in Dec, under old rules I start from 0 and get to gold wherever I get to it. I would have gotten to get Gold for only 15 extra segments if I managed, but I didn't.
By new rules, my 13 extra segments are counted, so I get to enjoy Gold sooner.
Nov 6, 2017, 1:51 pm
#337
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
That's precisely the point!!!!
Rollover requires a "surplus".
Deciding to give ALL XPs back again in the following year is not a rollover.
It's simply not going to happen!
Well, now you are being inconsistent.
Let me advance what you are appearing to say.
Let's say I am Platinum, which means I should get 300XP this year to maintain Platinum.
But let's say I only get 280XP.
Do I get a soft landing? Yes. Do I get a rollover? Yes - but you see to think the rollover should be 280, while I am saying that my "soft landing" in this case is paid for by a deduction of 180 XP
Your scheme would have me start my new Gold year with a starting total of 280XP - meaning that I only need 20XP in the next 12 months to get back to Platinum. Surely, that is *TOO* generous.
My claim is that I would start my new Gold year with (280-180XP) = 100XP. I still need 200XP to get Platinum. But I am already in a better position than in the old scheme, whereby I would have started with 0LevelMiles and 0Segments and required the full 70k/60segments.
But the current system IS to "penalise" everyone.
If you didn't make your target status again, you drop a level, and start from zero.
In the new scheme, if you don't make your target status again, you will also drop a level. But there is now scope for you to start with a non-zero XP balance. It would be too generous to allow EVERYONE in this scenario to KEEP everything they had - because rollover is only ever about rolling over the SURPLUS. Only those people who actually "Earned" the soft-landed status they would have got anyway, are therefore rewarded with a rollover.
Everyone else only gets the (otherwise un-earned) soft landed status - which is the boat that EVERYONE in the current system finds themselves in.
Rollover requires a "surplus".
Deciding to give ALL XPs back again in the following year is not a rollover.
It's simply not going to happen!
Besides, it doesn't give you 2 years to aim for 300XP platinum treshold, you need to do 300XP to requalify as Platinum every year. The other year you would just be Gold. That's no different than being Platinum, missing requalification, and then qualifying again from Gold. Except now segments roll over with miles. Even if you don't qualify.
Let me advance what you are appearing to say.
Let's say I am Platinum, which means I should get 300XP this year to maintain Platinum.
But let's say I only get 280XP.
Do I get a soft landing? Yes. Do I get a rollover? Yes - but you see to think the rollover should be 280, while I am saying that my "soft landing" in this case is paid for by a deduction of 180 XP
Your scheme would have me start my new Gold year with a starting total of 280XP - meaning that I only need 20XP in the next 12 months to get back to Platinum. Surely, that is *TOO* generous.
My claim is that I would start my new Gold year with (280-180XP) = 100XP. I still need 200XP to get Platinum. But I am already in a better position than in the old scheme, whereby I would have started with 0LevelMiles and 0Segments and required the full 70k/60segments.
If you didn't make your target status again, you drop a level, and start from zero.
In the new scheme, if you don't make your target status again, you will also drop a level. But there is now scope for you to start with a non-zero XP balance. It would be too generous to allow EVERYONE in this scenario to KEEP everything they had - because rollover is only ever about rolling over the SURPLUS. Only those people who actually "Earned" the soft-landed status they would have got anyway, are therefore rewarded with a rollover.
Everyone else only gets the (otherwise un-earned) soft landed status - which is the boat that EVERYONE in the current system finds themselves in.
Nov 6, 2017, 1:56 pm
#338
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 24
Nov 6, 2017, 1:57 pm
#339
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
It can be a good thing.
If I do 10 segments in Oct, 10 in Nov and 8 in Dec, under old rules I start from 0 and get to gold wherever I get to it. I would have gotten to get Gold for only 15 extra segments if I managed, but I didn't.
By new rules, my 13 extra segments are counted, so I get to enjoy Gold sooner.
If I do 10 segments in Oct, 10 in Nov and 8 in Dec, under old rules I start from 0 and get to gold wherever I get to it. I would have gotten to get Gold for only 15 extra segments if I managed, but I didn't.
By new rules, my 13 extra segments are counted, so I get to enjoy Gold sooner.
In both systems, an "imminent" year-end can clear away Level Miles/segments/XPs that, if earned at a better/earlier time, would have better chance/greater scope to help you gain/retain status. That is just as true in the new system as in the old.
However, there is one thing possible in the current system that is not at all possible in the new one - using the same, early flights to count for any of the following:
- from Ivory, not just earning Silver, but also Gold, and also Platinum.
- from Ivory, not just earning Silver, but also Gold
- from Silver, not just earning Gold, but also for Platinum.
Nov 6, 2017, 2:00 pm
#340
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,064
This is undisputed. It's also only really an issue for people who do one short burst of flying and then stop being able to qualify. Anyone who would otherwise qualify for gold/plat multiple years in a row will still get there -- just delayed by some measure (unless they really go overboard and manage the full 580XP in one year.)
Nov 6, 2017, 2:03 pm
#341
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS, BRU, POA
Programs: Skyteam E+ (FB PfL), Latam Black, LH MM, Iberia plus, HH: Diamond, Marriott Bonvoy: Plat
Posts: 1,124
Somewhat good news for virtual LTPE's
For those of us heading for LTPE and carrying a significant amount of c/o level miles into 2018, the conversion to XP is actually quite beneficial: 60k level miles will convert to 300 XP, while the old scheme would have subtracted 70k per qualifying year.
I thought it was worthwhile highlighting, since quite some people were worried about this in the previous thread.
I thought it was worthwhile highlighting, since quite some people were worried about this in the previous thread.
Nov 6, 2017, 2:08 pm
#342
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
That is slightly than currently, where the 360,000 ULTI miles are 2.5 times the Platinum requalification amount (140,000 miles), and actually only 2 times for French residents.
Is there anything in terms of improving the ULTI benefits that justifies this increase?
Nov 6, 2017, 2:08 pm
#343
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,064
For those of us heading for LTPE and carrying a significant amount of c/o level miles into 2018, the conversion to XP is actually quite beneficial: 60k level miles will convert to 300 XP, while the old scheme would have subtracted 70k per qualifying year.
I thought it was worthwhile highlighting, since quite some people were worried about this in the previous thread.
I thought it was worthwhile highlighting, since quite some people were worried about this in the previous thread.
Nov 6, 2017, 2:12 pm
#344
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,589
As a current Platinum I will start 2018 with 9858 Level Miles crried over from 2017 and maintain Platinum status and after some flights in Q1 2018 I will have 52,529 Level Miles at the 1st April 2018 for the change to the new FB system. If I have this correct that will convert to XP as follows:
(52,529 / 1,000) * 5 = 263XP
Does that mean I drop down to Gold on 1st April?
Thanks.
(52,529 / 1,000) * 5 = 263XP
Does that mean I drop down to Gold on 1st April?
Thanks.
Nobody will drop on Apr 1.