Last edit by: irishguy28
Introduction
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).This is only applicable in the first year.
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.
On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).
As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.
Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.
Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points
As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).
For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).
The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).
Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.
The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.
Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)
The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.
Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.
Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).
Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)
Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).
This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.
Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.
Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year
FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).
I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.
In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP).
Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)
Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
#541
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,064
Then assume I reach another 300 XP by March 2019, that's then 2 Platinum "years".
#542
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SE England
Programs: AF-KL Platinum, ALL Platinum
Posts: 755
That's not what she said and was told there is no annual change over rather just when you hit 30 0XP, you reset to 0 XP and coninue being a Platinum flyer. So I put it to her that if someone was really crazy then they could get Plat. for Life really fast; just earn 300 XP each month and ten months later - all done. But that's a just daft.
#543
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: London
Programs: SK Gold, ITA Executive, Sixt Diamond, Hertz PC, Avis PC, IHG Platinum
Posts: 5,163
Their wording suggests so. As such it would seem that in extreme case, one could qualify for Gold for 3 years with just one 40k trip:
if dobe by March: get Gold for 2019: so 12 months of 2019, plus 9 months leading up to 2019.
Then this is converted to 200XP, which will be enough to get Gold for 2020, another 12 months
And if the 3 months grace period is kept (which presumably it will as the reasons it exists are still valid), then we have 9+12+12+3=36 months of Gold, from that one trip.
I shall be visiting Irkutsk in February.
if dobe by March: get Gold for 2019: so 12 months of 2019, plus 9 months leading up to 2019.
Then this is converted to 200XP, which will be enough to get Gold for 2020, another 12 months
And if the 3 months grace period is kept (which presumably it will as the reasons it exists are still valid), then we have 9+12+12+3=36 months of Gold, from that one trip.
I shall be visiting Irkutsk in February.
#544
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,064
The problem is that this mechanism would be very inconsistent with the other status levels: you would never be able to qualify for gold if it worked the same way at silver, and it seems idiotic to special-case platinum for this.
So I put it to her that if someone was really crazy then they could get Plat. for Life really fast; just earn 300 XP each month and ten months later - all done. But that's a just daft.
---
What's special about Irkutsk?
Last edited by CyBeR; Nov 7, 2017 at 1:47 pm
#545
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
See the "Premium Fare Deals" thread. AZ has had cheap tickets from Scandinavia to Irkutsk.
#546
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,064
There is no higher level above platinum [notwithstanding the "ultimate" status] so there is no strict need to remove the XPs straight away. No further upgrade can happen. They can either remove the 300 straight away and let the rest roll through at the end of the year; or wait till the end of the year and roll everything through, less the 300XP.
See the "Premium Fare Deals" thread. AZ has had cheap tickets from Scandinavia to Irkutsk.
Last edited by CyBeR; Nov 7, 2017 at 2:08 pm
#547
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,065
That's not what she said and was told there is no annual change over rather just when you hit 30 0XP, you reset to 0 XP and coninue being a Platinum flyer. So I put it to her that if someone was really crazy then they could get Plat. for Life really fast; just earn 300 XP each month and ten months later - all done. But that's a just daft.
But it's still gonna happen every year. They wouldn't reset your 12 month clock every month, that defeats the purpose of carryover miles - to help you with next years qualification.
I'd be glad to be joined, I'm told driving to frozen Baikal is fun, but it might be too cold even for that in February, and days too short. At least if there's two of us, we won't look that weird getting drunk in some bar
Exactly, and for consistency I believe the latter option is what is used. But again for the end result of gaining status in advance it actually does not matter. Assuming the 300XP qualification threshold remains unchanged for the duration and they don't retroactively re-calculate in the former situation. The possibility of that happening leads me to believe they would not want to pre-qualify; instead letting you use roll-over points to qualify to updated requirements.
Yep. There's been some mentions of IKT in this thread and in the speculations one, the basic point is - there are some cheap fares that pass through IKT and should earn good miles.
#548
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK/FR
Programs: FlyingBlue Platinum, Hertz PC
Posts: 886
It's also unlikely they will consider flights between US and CA as domestic since it would contradict their very own rule to define domestic segments per their FAQ: flight which start and finish in the same country.
#549
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: Flying Blue Plat, Finnair Plat, Bonvoy Titanium, National EE
Posts: 122
I was also allowed into the lounge when I flew to the Bahamas (considered "half-domestic"), but it seemed like that was a courtesy extended rather than a stable benefit.
I hope DL F will at least be considered 'business' class, i.e. 6XP per segment.
And if Canada is not considered 'domestic', maybe lots of SEA-YVR in my future
I hope DL F will at least be considered 'business' class, i.e. 6XP per segment.
And if Canada is not considered 'domestic', maybe lots of SEA-YVR in my future
#550
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: SJC / SFO
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum; Marriott Bonvoy Platinum; Hilton Gold
Posts: 785
I was also allowed into the lounge when I flew to the Bahamas (considered "half-domestic"), but it seemed like that was a courtesy extended rather than a stable benefit.
I hope DL F will at least be considered 'business' class, i.e. 6XP per segment.
And if Canada is not considered 'domestic', maybe lots of SEA-YVR in my future
I hope DL F will at least be considered 'business' class, i.e. 6XP per segment.
And if Canada is not considered 'domestic', maybe lots of SEA-YVR in my future
I guess we'll only see how full breakdown of DL's new mileage earnings / XP only when they update the partner page. Right now it's one day this way, the other day the other way :/
#551
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indonesia
Programs: Flying Blue PE, Garuda FF Gold, Shangr-La Gold, KrisFlyer SQ
Posts: 79
Platinum with roll over until March 2020: what happens now with XP?
Dear all,
Maybe already discussed in one of the hundreds of post in this thread, sorry for any repetition of the following question:
I am Platinum and have already qualified for platinum until March 2019. My roll over per 1 January 2018 will be about 64K level miles and will have 70K level miles before 31 March 2018, which would qualify me to extend Platinum until March 2020 under the current scheme.
Would this also automatically be the case under the new XP scheme?
Appreciate your thoughts!
Maybe already discussed in one of the hundreds of post in this thread, sorry for any repetition of the following question:
I am Platinum and have already qualified for platinum until March 2019. My roll over per 1 January 2018 will be about 64K level miles and will have 70K level miles before 31 March 2018, which would qualify me to extend Platinum until March 2020 under the current scheme.
Would this also automatically be the case under the new XP scheme?
Appreciate your thoughts!
#552
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,064
Dear all,
Maybe already discussed in one of the hundreds of post in this thread, sorry for any repetition of the following question:
I am Platinum and have already qualified for platinum until March 2019. My roll over per 1 January 2018 will be about 64K level miles and will have 70K level miles before 31 March 2018, which would qualify me to extend Platinum until March 2020 under the current scheme.
Would this also automatically be the case under the new XP scheme?
Appreciate your thoughts!
Maybe already discussed in one of the hundreds of post in this thread, sorry for any repetition of the following question:
I am Platinum and have already qualified for platinum until March 2019. My roll over per 1 January 2018 will be about 64K level miles and will have 70K level miles before 31 March 2018, which would qualify me to extend Platinum until March 2020 under the current scheme.
Would this also automatically be the case under the new XP scheme?
Appreciate your thoughts!
Assuming that the 70k is the combination of roll-over + earning in jan-mar, that will convert to about 350XP on April 1. Your 70k miles will qualify you for 2019 already under the old rules and the converted XP should thus qualify you for Platinum again for 2020 using the roll-over mechanism.
FB has not said exactly how the conversion will work with regards to people who (re-)qualify before april of 2018, but the consensus among people here is as I described above. In the worst case you will indeed qualify for 2019 (so until March 2020), but we expect it should be 2020 (until March 2021).
Note that this March thing is based on the status check for current status holders being aligned with the calendar year -- actually the level check will now be based on a 12-month period after qualification, which for current status holders is from jan 1 to dec 31. Should you ever drop to gold and then re-qualify for plat, unless you manage to do it on the exact last day, that time period will shift. It being aligned to the calendar year for current status holders is an assumption of ours in this thread that has not been confirmed (or denied) by FB.
The above is based on the idea that once qualified under the current rules, that status sticks until it runs out at the already pre-defined date. If on the other hand, status gets "converted", if you will, to the new system as well then it is possible that instead you will find 300 XP deducted 12 months after you re-qualified in 2018, thus qualifying you until some time in 2020.
Since that is now a lot of options, here's the numbers:
Best case: qualifying before 01apr18 gives you status over 2019 as well, rollover XP are deducted at the end of 2019 thus qualifying for 2020 (+3 months until 31mar21)
Worst case: qualifying before 01apr18 gives you status over 2019, but XP are deducted on 31dec18 as if you qualified after april, thus giving status only over 2019 (+ 3 months until 31mar20)
Medium case: qualifying before 01apr18 sets your qualification date to that date when the conversion happens (using 01mar18 for the sake of argument), 300 points are deducted on 01mar19 for status until 01jul20 (01mar19 + 3 months)
Best case is what we think will happen, worst case would suck and is what would happen if you didn't manage to qualify before april, medium case is effectively what happens from next year onwards but applied to existing status.
Last edited by CyBeR; Nov 7, 2017 at 9:42 pm
#553
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: mostly not far from AMS, otherwise NUE
Programs: FB Silver, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,381
AMEX NL have published the new card rules - https://www.americanexpress.com/nl/c...img-flyingblue
As expected, no XP earning on KL flight purchases, Miles earning is unchanged. I'm torn between calling them to cancel right away (just to get their retention offer) or waiting a while until they've lost a substantial number of customers to get a better retention offer.
As expected, no XP earning on KL flight purchases, Miles earning is unchanged. I'm torn between calling them to cancel right away (just to get their retention offer) or waiting a while until they've lost a substantial number of customers to get a better retention offer.
#554
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: CPT,AMS
Posts: 4,412
AMEX NL have published the new card rules - https://www.americanexpress.com/nl/c...img-flyingblue
As expected, no XP earning on KL flight purchases, Miles earning is unchanged. I'm torn between calling them to cancel right away (just to get their retention offer) or waiting a while until they've lost a substantial number of customers to get a better retention offer.
As expected, no XP earning on KL flight purchases, Miles earning is unchanged. I'm torn between calling them to cancel right away (just to get their retention offer) or waiting a while until they've lost a substantial number of customers to get a better retention offer.
I will keep my card at least until April, as I would have some AF/KL flights to book so no harm in getting some extra level miles before the card becomes a pumpkin, and if by the end of 2018 I am missing some XPs, I can always pick it up again