"Somewhat scary one near Winnipeg" - The AC Master Incidents Thread
Jan 15, 2019, 9:23 pm
#3841
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Location: YYC
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Straw man. Defining a V1 is necessary. No matter how arbitrary it may be.
Unless there are two lights: "door not sealed but is ok" and "door broken and likely to fall off" then the first light means the second light.
Another straw man. Door won't fall at low altitude.
Jan 15, 2019, 9:47 pm
#3842
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Why? Why? Zed! / Why? You? Elle! / Gee! Are You!
Programs: Irrelevant
Posts: 3,543
Some people are making way more out of this than necessary, it’s a pretty straight forward series of procedures to follow.
Scenario:
Safety related EICAS (or simklar) indication during takeoff roll.
1. Above V1? Yes/No
No:
Reject take-off (no other options in most cases) communicate with tower re: rejected take-off and need for brake/tyre check if applicable.
Yes:
Continue with take-off (no choice once passed V1) work QRH procedures for indication, communicate with tower ask for vectors for holding between 3000 and 6000 ft. while working the checklists.
Determine if A/C is within weight limits for overweight landing.
If A/C is within weight limits for overweight landing ask ATC for vectors for overweight landing. Land overweight and follow applicable procedures for overweight landing for the type of A/C.
If A/C is too heavy for overweight landing then ask ATC for vectors for holding pattern to burn fuel until A/C is within limits for overweight landing, land and follow applicable for overweight landing for the type of A/C.
Scenario:
Safety related EICAS (or simklar) indication during takeoff roll.
1. Above V1? Yes/No
No:
Reject take-off (no other options in most cases) communicate with tower re: rejected take-off and need for brake/tyre check if applicable.
Yes:
Continue with take-off (no choice once passed V1) work QRH procedures for indication, communicate with tower ask for vectors for holding between 3000 and 6000 ft. while working the checklists.
Determine if A/C is within weight limits for overweight landing.
If A/C is within weight limits for overweight landing ask ATC for vectors for overweight landing. Land overweight and follow applicable procedures for overweight landing for the type of A/C.
If A/C is too heavy for overweight landing then ask ATC for vectors for holding pattern to burn fuel until A/C is within limits for overweight landing, land and follow applicable for overweight landing for the type of A/C.
Jan 16, 2019, 1:23 am
#3843
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
I suppose it would be hard for us to estimate the amount of fuel burn required to make a safe landing since the accident has yet to be investigated let alone a preliminary report being released!
-James
Jan 16, 2019, 7:44 am
#3844
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YXU
Programs: AC SE100K, National E/E, HH Diamond, IHG Diamond, MB, Avis PC
Posts: 968
Out of curiosity how would that work? If the plane is overweight by a decent amount (i.e. TATL flight) and since jettisoning is not possible per Boeing, the aircraft might have to do circles for many dozens of minutes, perhaps even an hour or more. Do you think passengers might experience any discomforting from the wind and being exposed to the elements? Colour me cynical!
I suppose it would be hard for us to estimate the amount of fuel burn required to make a safe landing since the accident has yet to be investigated let alone a preliminary report being released!
-James
I suppose it would be hard for us to estimate the amount of fuel burn required to make a safe landing since the accident has yet to be investigated let alone a preliminary report being released!
-James
As far as estimating how much fuel would have the crew of AC1049 burn is concerned, it would be impossible for us. None of the "usual suspects" published the 7M8's MLW yet. So even if we would know the LF, the weight of cargo and somehow managed to estimate the amount of fuel, we still wouldn't know the weight we would wish to reach.
Jan 16, 2019, 9:00 am
#3845
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
Originally Posted by Stranger
However, that would entil landing overweight, which safetywise is probably comparable with rejecting takeoff. Both scenarios entail very hard braking.
Originally Posted by Stranger
V1 is some value more or less arbitrarily selected as being an acceptable limit. In other words, more or less pulled off someone's hat, on the basis of it being reasonable. Keeping odds within a "reasonable" margin.
V1 speeds may differ from takeoff to takeoff, but they are the opposite of arbitrary, calculated with precision and as for being 'reasonable', V1 is the speed that determines whether a plane stops on a runway, or beyond it.
Originally Posted by WilcatYXU
None of the "usual suspects" published the 7M8's MLW yet.
Max Takeoff Weight is 181,200lbs.
Jan 16, 2019, 9:24 am
#3846
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,804
It sounds like you're stating that V1 is "arbitrary", "pulled out of a hat" and offers a "reasonable margin".
V1 speeds may differ from takeoff to takeoff, but they are the opposite of arbitrary, calculated with precision and as for being 'reasonable', V1 is the speed that determines whether a plane stops on a runway, or beyond it.
V1 speeds may differ from takeoff to takeoff, but they are the opposite of arbitrary, calculated with precision and as for being 'reasonable', V1 is the speed that determines whether a plane stops on a runway, or beyond it.
They are calculated with precision for every takeoff. (Obviously, operationally, one needs a totally unambiguous criterion.) Calculated based upon some formula that's supposed to provide for an "acceptable" risk. Latter being fully based upon reasonableness, i.e. "pulled off someone's hat." Add to that that no matter what the application, risk estimates are always a very subjective exercise.Bottom line, someone somewhere puts a dollar value on your life. But they likely prefer you not to know that, or god forbid, what value... But of course, what other choice is there?
Jan 16, 2019, 1:56 pm
#3848
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,003
Comparing the PSP airport diagram to the picture above, it looks like 31L was used and the a/c exited on J taxiway.
Where the a/c stopped prior to J is anyone's guess.
Factors affecting V1. Runway length, temperature, airport elevation, a/c weight. And no doubt a few others.
Where the a/c stopped prior to J is anyone's guess.
Factors affecting V1. Runway length, temperature, airport elevation, a/c weight. And no doubt a few others.
Jan 18, 2019, 12:29 pm
#3851
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Unruly passenger removed and hospitalized at YYC
Jan 18, 2019, 12:47 pm
#3852
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
"Air Canada Rouge flight RV1683 from Toronto to Victoria diverted to Calgary due to an unruly passenger. The flight was met by the authorities and as this is now a police matter we have no further details to provide. The flight resumed to Victoria after a three-hour delay,"
Joking aside, what is going on with people these days? They want to turn an inconvenience into a big drama and involve the authorities. Sometimes I wish for the good ol' days when people were polite, respectful and smoked cigarettes in the airport/plane to ease their anger.
-James
Jan 18, 2019, 1:19 pm
#3853
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE100K, Bonvoy Platinum Elite, IHG Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 2,132
From the story:
IDK about you folks but I'd be pretty ticked to find my route went Rogue
Joking aside, what is going on with people these days? They want to turn an inconvenience into a big drama and involve the authorities. Sometimes I wish for the good ol' days when people were polite, respectful and smoked cigarettes in the airport/plane to ease their anger.
-James
IDK about you folks but I'd be pretty ticked to find my route went Rogue
Joking aside, what is going on with people these days? They want to turn an inconvenience into a big drama and involve the authorities. Sometimes I wish for the good ol' days when people were polite, respectful and smoked cigarettes in the airport/plane to ease their anger.
-James
Unfortunate for those on board, but more so for the ill passenger if this is indeed the case.
Jan 18, 2019, 1:30 pm
#3854
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
Agree with WTME above, the article's wording hints of signs of some instability, and let's hope if that was the case, the woman receives the treatment and support she needs.
Does a routine passenger medical/behavioural diversion count as an incident?
Does a routine passenger medical/behavioural diversion count as an incident?
Jan 18, 2019, 1:35 pm
#3855
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: YVR - MILLS Waypoint (It's the third house on the left)
Programs: AC*SE100K, wood level status in various other programs
Posts: 6,231
