Transport Minister urges airlines to stop separating parents, children
Apr 29, 2016, 9:04 am
#226
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: YTZ
Posts: 502
Simple, give families the option of having guaranteed seats together, but only open up the last couple of rows of the plane for their seat selection. If they would prefer not to sit there they either accept they may be separated or they pay the fee (or higher fare bracket).
You can send the Nobel to my work address.
You can send the Nobel to my work address.
Apr 29, 2016, 9:16 am
#227
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Programs: *G
Posts: 2,304
Has anyone mentioned that at OLCI, you are asked if the passenger is Adult Male/Female or Child under 12. Is this driven by said parent/child seating issue but of course not everyone does OLCI. And even at OLCI, you still have to pay for preferred seats which may be all that's left.
Whatever the reason, there is a major problem with families and children being split up and ending up with the last seats available - the middle preferred seats - and I have encountered it numerous times recently.
Whatever the reason, there is a major problem with families and children being split up and ending up with the last seats available - the middle preferred seats - and I have encountered it numerous times recently.
Apr 29, 2016, 9:17 am
#228
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC 50K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 1,551
Not an AC story but LH.
A few years ago I had a LH economy reward within Europe with my wife and two children under 12. No seat assignments were possible even when I phoned LH. At check in, there were no seats available together, not even pairs. I spoke to the checkin agent and the GA. Both said talk the to FA. Once on board the FA told me it wasn't her problem. I then informed the FA that since my children were under 12 and that LH had not allowed me to select seats, they were now UMs in my opinion. I then told my children, with the FA standing there, to press the call button whenever they needed something since we couldn't get to them if the seat belt sign was on. Magically the FA was suddenly inspired to help and found two pairs of seats.
I agree that people should pay for seat selection. I would have paid in the above situation but LH made it impossible. You have to enter DOB when you book. Why can't the website issue a warning and force people to choose seats if they are traveling with children under 12?
A few years ago I had a LH economy reward within Europe with my wife and two children under 12. No seat assignments were possible even when I phoned LH. At check in, there were no seats available together, not even pairs. I spoke to the checkin agent and the GA. Both said talk the to FA. Once on board the FA told me it wasn't her problem. I then informed the FA that since my children were under 12 and that LH had not allowed me to select seats, they were now UMs in my opinion. I then told my children, with the FA standing there, to press the call button whenever they needed something since we couldn't get to them if the seat belt sign was on. Magically the FA was suddenly inspired to help and found two pairs of seats.
I agree that people should pay for seat selection. I would have paid in the above situation but LH made it impossible. You have to enter DOB when you book. Why can't the website issue a warning and force people to choose seats if they are traveling with children under 12?
Apr 29, 2016, 9:18 am
#229
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada/US
Programs: AC SE, Marriott LTPP, Avis +
Posts: 213
Perhaps it's best to force Canada/US flight buyers into buying seat selection when a child ticket is also purchased on the same itinerary. If they book a child on their own they're forced to pay for unaccompanied minor.
And if there's no seats together then they can't book.
I don't recall concert tickets having so many conditions to selling. If i don't get to pick a seat I don't buy. If I can't find seats together I also won't buy.
And if there's no seats together then they can't book.
I don't recall concert tickets having so many conditions to selling. If i don't get to pick a seat I don't buy. If I can't find seats together I also won't buy.
Apr 29, 2016, 9:19 am
#230
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada/US
Programs: AC SE, Marriott LTPP, Avis +
Posts: 213
Not an AC story but LH.
A few years ago I had a LH economy reward within Europe with my wife and two children under 12. No seat assignments were possible even when I phoned LH. At check in, there were no seats available together, not even pairs. I spoke to the checkin agent and the GA. Both said talk the to FA. Once on board the FA told me it wasn't her problem. I then informed the FA that since my children were under 12 and that LH had not allowed me to select seats, they were now UMs in my opinion. I then told my children, with the FA standing there, to press the call button whenever they needed something since we couldn't get to them if the seat belt sign was on. Magically the FA was suddenly inspired to help and found two pairs of seats.
I agree that people should pay for seat selection. I would have paid in the above situation but LH made it impossible. You have to enter DOB when you book. Why can't the website issue a warning and force people to choose seats if they are traveling with children under 12?
A few years ago I had a LH economy reward within Europe with my wife and two children under 12. No seat assignments were possible even when I phoned LH. At check in, there were no seats available together, not even pairs. I spoke to the checkin agent and the GA. Both said talk the to FA. Once on board the FA told me it wasn't her problem. I then informed the FA that since my children were under 12 and that LH had not allowed me to select seats, they were now UMs in my opinion. I then told my children, with the FA standing there, to press the call button whenever they needed something since we couldn't get to them if the seat belt sign was on. Magically the FA was suddenly inspired to help and found two pairs of seats.
I agree that people should pay for seat selection. I would have paid in the above situation but LH made it impossible. You have to enter DOB when you book. Why can't the website issue a warning and force people to choose seats if they are traveling with children under 12?
Apr 29, 2016, 9:21 am
#231
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BC Ferries allows passengers to reserve (vehicle) space on the major routes, but only 40% of the space is available for reservation. (i.e. they reserve 60% of the space for people without reservations
) Is this a potential solution? Once xx% of seats are selected in advance, it becomes a free-for-all (per BA and others) at check-in? What if the families with kids don't check in until the airport and only singles are available?
Apr 29, 2016, 9:21 am
#232
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: TXL
Programs: A3 Silver
Posts: 1,116
I agree that people should pay for seat selection. I would have paid in the above situation but LH made it impossible. You have to enter DOB when you book. Why can't the website issue a warning and force people to choose seats if they are traveling with children under 12?
Apr 29, 2016, 9:40 am
#233
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: yyz
Posts: 1,611
AC most likely gives free seat selection to 60% plus already. Most family's buy their tickets well in advance and only buy low tango fares, that why they have this problem. I know people to cheap to pay the res fee at BC Feries, then complain when they have a 1 sailing wait. Sometimes companies are in a no win situation because of entitled people. Maybe AC should just have a warning pop up with a box that needs to be checked, telling people when buying multi Tango tickets that there is a chance they will not sit together unless they buy seats. That way, there is no "I didn't know" argument at the airport.
Apr 29, 2016, 10:07 am
#234
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Programs: Air Canada Aeroplan
Posts: 1,748
Whatever the final decision (parents pay, parents get free seating with their children), ensuring that families are not separated is ultimately a technology implementation problem. This being Air Canada, it will never be solved.
Apr 29, 2016, 10:38 am
#235
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Left
Programs: FT
Posts: 7,285
Yes we do, and frankly I can't think of a situation over the years where we haven't worked it out. Do we really need to legislate yet something else?? Granted getting a family of 5 or more seats together may be challenging, but I have always ensured that a child is seated with at least one of the parents.
Apr 29, 2016, 10:45 am
#236
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We also need to legislate governments, because they are the biggest dirt bags of them all. I like how the Transport Minister wants free seats for kid(no add on charges), but still wants them to pay all the government airport add on charges?
Apr 29, 2016, 11:16 am
#237
Join Date: Dec 2007
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And according to post #228 it also happens on LH - an airline known for its technical expertise and acumen as well as the vast majority of others. Imagine a family books the day before and because of patchy seating availability an existing Customer is involuntarily relocated to accommodate a legislated policy. I welcome any policy/procedure that improves the process, but with several decades under my belt, can assure you that in the course of "stuff" that arises on a day to day basis, this is one of the easiest on-board scenarios to remedy - largely due to the accommodation of others. Just my opinion.
Apr 29, 2016, 11:56 am
#238
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And according to post #228 it also happens on LH - an airline known for its technical expertise and acumen as well as the vast majority of others. Imagine a family books the day before and because of patchy seating availability an existing Customer is involuntarily relocated to accommodate a legislated policy. I welcome any policy/procedure that improves the process, but with several decades under my belt, can assure you that in the course of "stuff" that arises on a day to day basis, this is one of the easiest on-board scenarios to remedy - largely due to the accommodation of others. Just my opinion.
Apr 29, 2016, 12:12 pm
#239
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Since this topic and thread are now entering the seventh circle of .....
Posted in this thread Oct 1 ,2015
Posted in this thread March 5, 2016
Multiple posts with some really good ideas are already in this thread.
None of these ideas will fix the problem of the agitated parent. I've posted about the near-emotional-hissy-fit onboard one of my LAX flights by a mom who could not accept that she and one child were sitting in a row near the back, while husband and other child were in the Preferred Seats. Mom was arguing and holding up boarding of pax.
As I wrote then and will repeat now, FA deserved an award for managing the situation, asking the parent if she paid for her seat selection, explaining to the parent that those in Preferred paid, and most importantly, offering to sort it out after departure - which she did and some pax in Preferred gave up their seats. That mom could not understand why half the family was in Preferred and didn't pay (GTE) and the other half was further back. No amount of explaining the concept of paying for an exact seat selection mattered to her.
While this problem may exist with many airlines, there have been some great suggestions posted here on the AC FT forum.
Assuming AC's IT could manage an extra line of "warning lights" to pax who book on its site, I doubt AC has much if any control on the OTAs, where many pax book their flights.
Posted in this thread Oct 1 ,2015
The airlines have created the mess. It could have been solved long ago, but the airlines wanted to continue play low fare roulette. There were 2 obvious solutions;
One was to have a pop up box that asked: Do you require assigned seats, with a special bold advisory that says people traveling together who wish to sit together must purchase assigned seating. Is it any different than the insurance options, or the assistance options that can be selected or declined? It's an easy viable solution.......
One was to have a pop up box that asked: Do you require assigned seats, with a special bold advisory that says people traveling together who wish to sit together must purchase assigned seating. Is it any different than the insurance options, or the assistance options that can be selected or declined? It's an easy viable solution.......
Posted in this thread March 5, 2016
So if booking on the AC website, and you have indicated you are flying with children can't a message like the following pop-up before completing:
"Your booking has indicated that you are flying with children and have not seat selected, the following will apply:
1. if you select and pay for seats, your party will be kept together
2. if you choose to continue without paying for seats, you will be able to select seats on check-in, but there are no guarantees.
3. if your child has to select a seat where they are by themselves, then the unaccompanied minor fee applies.
Please acknowledge your acceptance of these terms"
A couple of things would have to be in effect to help with this. If a seat selection is done, the airline must honor these with a minimum of one parent, one child in case of an aircraft switch. If the seat is assigned before check-in, then the algorithm needs to try to place a parent and child together (but they have been warned).
This message would allow the infrequent flier to be aware of what is happening and what could happen, allowing them to make a choice. If there is no pair of seats together, then it gets a little sticky. Possibly the answer may be they shouldn't be booking on that flight but obviously not all routes have multiple flights. The counter should be you should have booked earlier but then things do arise where you need to go now. Obviously we can't cover all situations.
The bigger issue for me though is how do you get all the on-line travel agencies to broadcast these messages before the ticket is booked. Most of them won't want to change their coding for one airline, especially if they ticket infrequently. I think more people are using online ticket agencies than the AC site.
Anyway, just a thought. (Putting on flame suit now and entering air raid shelter)
"Your booking has indicated that you are flying with children and have not seat selected, the following will apply:
1. if you select and pay for seats, your party will be kept together
2. if you choose to continue without paying for seats, you will be able to select seats on check-in, but there are no guarantees.
3. if your child has to select a seat where they are by themselves, then the unaccompanied minor fee applies.
Please acknowledge your acceptance of these terms"
A couple of things would have to be in effect to help with this. If a seat selection is done, the airline must honor these with a minimum of one parent, one child in case of an aircraft switch. If the seat is assigned before check-in, then the algorithm needs to try to place a parent and child together (but they have been warned).
This message would allow the infrequent flier to be aware of what is happening and what could happen, allowing them to make a choice. If there is no pair of seats together, then it gets a little sticky. Possibly the answer may be they shouldn't be booking on that flight but obviously not all routes have multiple flights. The counter should be you should have booked earlier but then things do arise where you need to go now. Obviously we can't cover all situations.
The bigger issue for me though is how do you get all the on-line travel agencies to broadcast these messages before the ticket is booked. Most of them won't want to change their coding for one airline, especially if they ticket infrequently. I think more people are using online ticket agencies than the AC site.
Anyway, just a thought. (Putting on flame suit now and entering air raid shelter)
Multiple posts with some really good ideas are already in this thread.
None of these ideas will fix the problem of the agitated parent. I've posted about the near-emotional-hissy-fit onboard one of my LAX flights by a mom who could not accept that she and one child were sitting in a row near the back, while husband and other child were in the Preferred Seats. Mom was arguing and holding up boarding of pax.
As I wrote then and will repeat now, FA deserved an award for managing the situation, asking the parent if she paid for her seat selection, explaining to the parent that those in Preferred paid, and most importantly, offering to sort it out after departure - which she did and some pax in Preferred gave up their seats. That mom could not understand why half the family was in Preferred and didn't pay (GTE) and the other half was further back. No amount of explaining the concept of paying for an exact seat selection mattered to her.
While this problem may exist with many airlines, there have been some great suggestions posted here on the AC FT forum.
Assuming AC's IT could manage an extra line of "warning lights" to pax who book on its site, I doubt AC has much if any control on the OTAs, where many pax book their flights.
Apr 29, 2016, 1:14 pm
#240
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I'm not sure that logic makes sense to me though.
I was thinking of a technical solution to this problem that would satisfy AC and passengers, but it's likely too complex for their system to handle.
