Thanks for this. You're right, it is as if there are two different schemes here (appropriate choice of terms in my view), each perhaps with their own set of inducements and "rewards". BUT, I thought the distinction (no pun intended) was between Aeroplan and Distinction, or wait, is it between Aeroplan and Altitude???

While we're at it, can anybody provide some clarity on what each is designed to do? Failing that, how about some perspective on how you see each one? I have to admit, not entirely clear to me.

Altitude is there to incent (LOL! ) people to physically fly more with half of the mileage required in each tier on AC metal.

Aeroplan is there to incent people to fly more on *A airlines (including AC) and also to spend more as you can accrue miles through other methods, primarily by using a CC that will allow you to earn Aeroplan miles and/or into a program that allows you to convert into AE miles. As part of this, most miles that you can earn as part of this program (through flying or buying stuff) also are eligible as dDistinction miles which give you access to other (primarily useless) stuff. So let's say you spend enough to hit dDistinction Diamond, you get a priority phone number to help you bypass the queue. I would find that useful if I didn't have my Aeroplan elite phone #.

So, Zorn, it's a game then? Manipulate them while they are manipulating you, do it better before they figure it out?

What I find interesting is that you are apparently TWO customers -- one who is spending your own money, and another one that's spending the company's? I wonder: How many other users on this thread experience that dichotomy? Anyone out there found that Aeroplan (or Altitude or whatever) had enough pull to motivate some creative positioning with the corporate expense people? Is it still the case?

I don't know about that; The load factors have been increasing (as I understand it) because AC simply has a whole let less metal flying fewer routes at lower frequencies. I do agree that one of the things that's happened is that Aeroplan (or more precisely AIMIA) has proliferated (prostituted?) points so widely that they are now experiencing the double whammy of gobs of points and point holders out there competing for a diminishing number of seats. Aeroplan likes to blame Air Canada for this (they use their separate corporate identities like a cudgel), but IMO they own a good measure of the pain the elites have been experiencing.

Me too. Silly me, I also expect to be rewarded, valued and treated with some loyalty for my two million miles of travel on this airlines. Or, at least not on a diminishing-by-year basis.

Of course people who spend corporate money will find interesting ways of spending it to maximize personal return. It's a game, and humans love playing them. The question is how far do people live on the edge...

Of course. I see people holding off on submitting firm travel plans to the corporate TAs for booking because they are hoping to end up on a Flex or Latitude ticket instead of Tango.

What would you consider a reasonable amount? Starting at 25K?

The former I hardly ever use (though there are times where this is beneficial for me to use.)
The latter can be mitigated by PP (though that is quite important to me.)

do you seriously think that an airline would have been able to sell every single J/F seat had there been no upgrades?
What about IRROPS where that saves the airline compensation?
Or, in the case of points upgrades, wipes a liability off the books/gets money from another alliance partner?

I don't think the value of status on the airline whose FFP you are a member of should be cut but the metal requirements to qualify for status on that FFP should be increased substantially and some of the alliance benefits cutback as well. I realize this isn't a popular view on FT but I don't mind in my case being loyal to BA and keeping my status benefits instead of the airline cutting back on such benefits because of people just hitting the minimum 4 BA flights while flying mostly on cheap AA domestic flights. Same with AC when you have people flying the majority of their flights on UA to gain status.

And if your organization uses Concur, you'll end up on a report is you book it. Concur calls it "loss savings" so anyone that uses the tool and books less than 14 days ends up on a report. Tip to those on here who are forced to use it. Stay off those reports!

Everybody who spends clients'/corporate money for travel and also books travel for personal. I'd actually guess the majority that isn't running their own non-consulting company.

There seems to be a bit of confusion and some attempts to clarify which program and what type of program we're talking about.

• Aeroplan: points that can be turned into rewards.
• Altitude: program offering perks for flying more with AC & *A
• Distinction: threshold at which you get some better rewards at AP.
• P25/E35/E75/SE100: threshold at which you get better perks in altitude.

The thresholds in each program are there to entice people to direct more spend towards the loyalty program. I happen not to care about the AP thresholds (Distinction) and to care much more about the Altitude thresholds.

I disagree with the assumption that AP is not a loyalty program. It tries to do the same as Altitude: get people to spend more with vendors that offer AP points than those that don't. In my mind, that's the only valid ground why an esso / dentist / ... would offer AP points (or airmiles for that matter). From an airline point of view, it doesn't yield much to spend time with that level of vendors to build a points based loyalty program, but it does make total sense for Aimia. On the other hand, for most people points they collect exclusively through flying are pretty worthless too, because it takes them 20 years to get some meaningful balance. To fully understand my viewpoint on aeroplan points, I'll clarify that I see them as part of the Altitude offering, but they can also stand on themselves.

Altitude is primarily centered around perks for the frequent traveller. A couple that I really enjoy:
1) Time
- breezing through the airport
- no wait times when dealing with call center / staff.
- quick and easy access to someone I know will sort out any travel issue I have. (good on the real-life concierges, they are tremendous. big time fail on the call center. give us back the option of direct numbers. fail on dis-empowering concierges across the board.)

2) Comfort
- quiet lounges with good food and a quality, quiet work area. (fail on AC's part, i'm in PP all the time)
- generous luggage allowance, even when on economy (great on AC, fail on *A)

3) Luxury
- upgrades. They are a tremendous value add for when I actually want a J seat. Which is why the cuts have hurt so much.
- op ups. Nice surprises that make me much more valued than a confirmed upgrade could.
- non-policy specials. Really, I like surprises. Psychologically there seems ground to believe they work a lot better than policy benefits to keep people loyal. Judging by the outrage the 787 events created, a lot of people like specials and people hated even more to be left out.

4) Rewards
- miles for reward travel. especially in combination with the next item.
- improved reward redemption options. I'll spend more money irrationally, but I couldn't for the love of me make my wife do crazy routings, mileage runs or mileage run weekend trips. So, I'll be the one maintaining status, spending the extra money and I enjoy getting some of that back by having her on a reward ticket when she needs to travel.
- threshold gifts. Make me feel rewarded while getting my status. And for keeping loyal after. (It's still beyond me why SE's don't get the ones below 100k. The end result is I've only ever received one 50$ Amazon card). I was daydreaming last year of reaching one beyond 100k. This year I'll reach the 150k one without doing EYW or mileage runs and I couldn't care much. There's a whole seperate thread about rewarding past 100K, and I couldn't really point to anything that would do that except 1MM.

The above points are pretty much in order of importance to me. And as I fly more and travel more, time is more important. Hence, a couple of ideas for things I'd like from a loyalty program and that would make me even more loyal (After all, I am writing all this from the PP lounge waiting for WS 1400 to LAS while there is a ACr an hour later)
- Waive cost for same day confirmed changes. Flex only to be realistic. Instant value for Flex tickets.
- True IKK without R games that cost oodles of time calling in again and again and again.
- No phone booking fees for rewards. I could overlook this with a functional
online booking tool, which I'd like even more as it's faster.

This...

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip-...-surprise.html

WOW. Now that is classy! I have not read one post about this happening at AC. Well done AA! And this is on an alleged airline which is beneath AC.