yvr76

I'm sure that E35K will eventually disappear, which will improve priority boarding and lounge access.

Cutting it for E50K would be a pretty big step, as only the U.S. carriers do this for Gold elites across *Alliance. I don't see this happening anytime soon, especially since qualification for UA/DL/AA is a lot easier than AC. Given that upgrades have been gutted, if E50K didn't have lounge access then mid-tier elites would have little reason to stay.

PLeblond

I believe Turkish also has a family membership.

edit: I am not familiar with the details, but I believe you can accumulate miles under 1 account, but status miles are on an individual basis, so family members' travel do not bump the 'master' card holder's status.

Fraport

Thanks - I figured it would obvious that my 20K included the kids, and my post was already too wordy and whiny so I didn't think i needed to verbalize that part.

Anyways, this was the type of useful advice/confirmation I was hoping for, even though it spells out bad news for me. I guess there's no way for me to stick to a loyalty program and actually get any benefit from it because of the family thing/expat thing. Not unless LH (where my husband has senator status) makes a few changes.

I'm not so much complaining - just musing and a bit bummed over these revelations that my loyal and piddly (albeit personal) cashflow towards Air Canada doesn't get me what it used to. Of course this is not news to you guys who are much more experienced than I am, but those international MLL passes were a godsend and I am sad to lose them. (don't worry SEs, I only have been in there when they are pretty empty - usually Saturday nights) Perhaps the best thing to do is to look into the Amex card.

gglave

But that's AC's goal, though. They don't want the mid-tiers to stay.

AC wants to keep -

1) The price-sensitive low-yield traveller (Rouge, Tango fares, HD configs)

2) The high-end traveller buying Latitude and Paid J (SEs)

They want all the bottom-feeder mid-tier elites to move up or down or go away.

To get the thread back on track, in my case I've left - So when it comes to me, mission accomplished.

RatherBeInYOW

I have price sensitive trip to somewhere warm in December, and I went with Westjet (for the first time ever) because it is cheaper even though the AC flight has been Rouge-ed and Air Canada really doesn't offer me anything really valuable any more as a FF. In the past I would have paid the extra $200 to fly AC but now Westjet can have my business. I'll still fly AC sometimes, when it is more convenient or cheaper, but AC doesn't have a loyalty program for anyone below SE100K (and even then at SE that's debatable) so I'm just continuing to take my business elsewhere.

The number of people buying Lat flight passes and paid J isn't going to keep Air Canada in business.

moorw003

To suggest any company, least of all AC wants to shed tens of thousands of customers off its roster is bizarre.

I do think they've taken a view that because there is little domestic competition in the FF programme game, they've tried to devalue it a lot, but think it still offers more than anything else. I think that's a mistake partly because the anger people have will drive people away even if AC are technically right.

And partly because the new WS one has come along out of the blue (I imagine after the altitude programme changes had been signed off), and side by side whilst E50K still represents a better package if the price is right over WS, the introduction of free same day changes of course sets that programme apart and if we're honest that is that is going to be the number one reason people start using them.

What mid-tiers do have to accept is that despite all the ranting from SE's over devaluation, a giant chasm still exists between 75K and 100K. It will still pay to be S100K. There are fewer incentives to fly AC anymore as a middling elite though, but to suggest AC wants you to shove off cannot be true.

SparseFlyer

For some reason, my departure times to/from sun destination is always on time with AC.

Westjet and Sunwing always seem to be delayed several minutes/hours.

I have to say though, since sun-destinations have started being rouged, I've only been to AC Mainline destinations (which are nicer anyways).

SparseFlyer

Wrt to this comment, I remember an airline industry analyst and a CEO discussing how a healthy TPAC/TATL J cabin is absolutely crucial to profitable routes.

I think the argument was that, although Y can't live without paid J (and vice versa), the objective of the Y cabin is to just fill it, whereas the objective of J cabin is to get as much full-fare J as possible.


Hypothetical figures:

Revenue of paid J $1000
Cost of paid J $100

Revenue of paid Y $250
Cost of paid Y $50

Effectively, making your paid J really worth it if it fills with paid customers, but a major loss in revenue if it is not filled with paid J (ie operational upgrades etc).

RatherBeInYOW

Sure. But in the past people upgrading in to J would have been in higher fare buckets. Even people who were not upgrading but were collecting status were in higher fare buckets.

Now if you can't afford paid J you might as well fly on the lowest Tango fare or fly on another airline. There is no incentive for me to ever buy a "Flex" fare or a Lat fare if there is a Tango fare available.

SparseFlyer

Yeah, I guess this is where AC must've made the math and taken their conclusion.

The extra income in flex/lat probably did not outweight the lost revenue from J, or from having a smaller J cabin.

Which I guess in turn would explain the reduction of J seats, increase in Y density, and reduction of eUps etc

I would assume that most SEs are usually flying paid J (and they seem to be the only one that have gotten some small 'perks'?), while the rest were pretty much told "you can keep priority boarding and other services, but as far as the J cabin goes, you either buy it, or you sit in Y most of the time".

I wonder how many E50/E75 here would be SEs if they would purchase J regularly...

Fizzer

Whether they wanted it or not that's what my wife and I did last year. As many have posted here already as a lowly E50 we saw little to no advantage in paying more for Flex over Tango nor for AC over their competitors. It was a combination of this realization, plus the ever decreasing seat size, as well as evidence of a morally corrupt business ethic ( such as changing things after the miles had been accrued; changing service after tickets had been bought etc. ) that resulted in our light bulb moment. No regrets whatsoever.

IluvSQ

Well, I have finally made my decision. Since I will definitely fly over 100K miles next year on Star, but less than 50K on AC, I have decided to stop chasing status.

I will fly as much free travel as I can ( I just booked CGK-TPE-YYZ-PVG-CGK in J on
AE reward), I just transferred 80K SPG =100 K AE plus 25% bonus - 125 AE for
another Asia trip. I have over 300K Amex points that can go to AC, or others, for more redemptions. And I will have until Feb 28, 2016 to enjoy my IKK.

In the meantime, for all other flights, I will now look at the cheapest, most direct
flights instead of always choosing AC/Star. Watch my signature for how my travel
patterns will change in 2015.

gglave

One has to assume the bean counters have calculated that the middle-tier elites cost more to service (MLL & *G lounges, domestic upgrades on flex etc) than they earn in revenue, so AC wants them to go away.

How else would you explain the ravaging of E35 and E50 over the past few years?

PLeblond

Wants them to go away?? I don't get it. How you interpret their moves as hoping customers stop flying them?

Consider it an indirect price increase that may have some mid tier frequent flyers to chose other airlines; OK, I'd accept.

Say that in your mind, it is no longer worth playing the game to attain this status level; fine. Yes I can understand that.

But to believe that a company no longer wants you? Or worse WANTS you to go away??!? That is just unfathomable. I don't understand how you come to believe this.

LockheedElectra

My decision to leave is entirely self serving, as I am looking at the best possible options to ensure my longer flights (anything Europe and beyond) are covered, and to have as many upgrades as possible in NA. So I have been evaluating both DL and AA and I thought it might be interesting to show my thinking and results.

As an FYI, I figure I went from spending about $7000 in October on AC to about maybe $1300 in November.

So here is my current thinking:

Million Miler programs: the only one worth anything of the big 3 is United. Both AA and DL give equivalent to 'Silver status' for 1mm. Even AC is better. Tie.

Upgrades: AA wins hands down.

Overseas flights: if I change my Europe hub to CDG, Air France has very reasonable PE prices ($2K mid week), which is less than a Flex unless you schedule a Saturday night stay. It look like a good seat, but still trying to assess this. I can also fly to Asia/ Australia paid J on DL or South China, and this looks a minimum of 20% lower than on AC, the downside is that the travel time is longer.

If I want LHR to remain as hub, BA is reasonable as well, though not as low as AF. Australia is on Quantas, and no less expensive than AC, and Asia is abou the same.

Leaning towards DL.