AC Presence on FT
May 16, 2014, 4:21 pm
#286
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,536
May 16, 2014, 4:55 pm
#287
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: AC MM E50 , Former SPG, now Marriott LT Plat
Posts: 6,268
seat while you sit in the back. The only time I have rejected a one-person
only upgrade is when we were travelling with our 3 young kids.
May 16, 2014, 5:23 pm
#288
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: YVR
Programs: AC*SE MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 4,604
Would you expect your wife (presuming she has no status) get the upgrade and the next SE in line miss it? How would you feel if the situation was reversed and you were the SE next on the list?
May 16, 2014, 5:26 pm
#289
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan SE AND 1MM, HHonors Gold, Marriott Bonvoy Platinum , L'Accor Platinum
Posts: 9,580
Welcome Ben.
I have a lot of questions. I wonder I can ask you 3 questions, which have been asked by me on FT in the past.
1. I am of (East) Indian origin. Do you have plans to re-start service from YYZ or start service from YVR to India. It is interesting to me (although we can all agree on the reasons) why the original AC non-stop service from YYZ to DEL did not do well, or the earlier services to India (Mumbai) and Singapore did not do well. It is of interest that AC is expanding a profitable service to China/Hong Kong; but AC can not find profitability on Indian routes (of course, we know that Indians are a lot more thrifty than Chinese, and Indian millionaires would think twice about flying business or first class). It also seems that European Airlines (eg LH, LX, BA etc) or Middle Eastern Airlines (eg Emirates) on the trans-atlantic routes, or various Asian airlines on the trans-pacific routes are "stealing" all your customer base. I suspect that the number of passengers flying each year from Canada to China is not all that much more than the number flying from Canada to India.
2. Do or will SEs who are MMs get additional benefits (over and above the usual SE benefits) during their SE benefit year?
3. This summer I am flying to Kona on a P class UA fare - which is a lot cheaper than a Z (or ?P) class AC fare. Why the discrepancy?
It would be nice if AC offered Flight passes for residents of Central or Eastern Canada to travel to Hawaii, just like AC offers flight passes to residents of Vancouver, Edmonton, or Calgary to travel to FL or the Caribbean? Perhaps latitude or business class flight passes prices per segment would be competitive with the UA fares. I go to Hawaii (from YOW) once to twice a year - I have 2 timeshares in Hawaii.
Thanks.
I have a lot of questions. I wonder I can ask you 3 questions, which have been asked by me on FT in the past.
1. I am of (East) Indian origin. Do you have plans to re-start service from YYZ or start service from YVR to India. It is interesting to me (although we can all agree on the reasons) why the original AC non-stop service from YYZ to DEL did not do well, or the earlier services to India (Mumbai) and Singapore did not do well. It is of interest that AC is expanding a profitable service to China/Hong Kong; but AC can not find profitability on Indian routes (of course, we know that Indians are a lot more thrifty than Chinese, and Indian millionaires would think twice about flying business or first class). It also seems that European Airlines (eg LH, LX, BA etc) or Middle Eastern Airlines (eg Emirates) on the trans-atlantic routes, or various Asian airlines on the trans-pacific routes are "stealing" all your customer base. I suspect that the number of passengers flying each year from Canada to China is not all that much more than the number flying from Canada to India.
2. Do or will SEs who are MMs get additional benefits (over and above the usual SE benefits) during their SE benefit year?
3. This summer I am flying to Kona on a P class UA fare - which is a lot cheaper than a Z (or ?P) class AC fare. Why the discrepancy?
It would be nice if AC offered Flight passes for residents of Central or Eastern Canada to travel to Hawaii, just like AC offers flight passes to residents of Vancouver, Edmonton, or Calgary to travel to FL or the Caribbean? Perhaps latitude or business class flight passes prices per segment would be competitive with the UA fares. I go to Hawaii (from YOW) once to twice a year - I have 2 timeshares in Hawaii.
Thanks.
May 16, 2014, 5:46 pm
#290
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: YVR
Programs: United Silver, Bonvoy Titanium, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 378
Great to see you Ben and Ben on the site. There has been more useful interaction with AC representatives in the last day than the last several years combined!
Quick question - any plans to change the god awful 7am LAS-YVR departure to any kind of more reasonable time? Speaking of route viability to/from YVR, everyone I know avoids that flight simply because of the timing.
Quick question - any plans to change the god awful 7am LAS-YVR departure to any kind of more reasonable time? Speaking of route viability to/from YVR, everyone I know avoids that flight simply because of the timing.
Last edited by eyeball1; May 16, 2014 at 5:51 pm
May 16, 2014, 6:03 pm
#291
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SEMM, NEXUS
Posts: 858
Also, all these cities have later departures to YVR if you want to sleep in.
May 16, 2014, 7:16 pm
#292
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: YKF
Programs: AC Elite 50K, Amex AP Plat, Choice Privileges, National Exec Elite, Via Prefrence
Posts: 2,996
The point I was trying to make was that having a transparent upgrade system upholds the fundamentals of a clear value proposition. Asymmetrical information has many more unintended consequences.
May 16, 2014, 8:06 pm
#293
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
Welcome Ben Lipsey. (And welcome back Ben Smith.)
It's nice to see you here. The sudden burst of transparency is most refreshing.
For what it's worth, some unsolicited advice -- please pace yourselves. I don't think anyone wants you to OD/burn out on FT quickly. (Perhaps the moderators could set up a Q&A forum, wiki, or whatever else they have... where an "Ask an Exec" program might be set up.)
Two observations... both of which have been alluded to earlier.
The first is if you are going to cut back some service and benefit, just come out and state it directly. Justify it if you have to, but be direct. I'm certain a great deal of anger has been unnecessarily generated because of the perceived insult of many "enhancements." I'm equally sure that if it was addressed directly, people would still be unhappy or disappointed in the cutback, but at least they wouldn't be insulted. As well, the issue would likely fade much more quickly. (Likewise, don't announce a bunch of major cutbacks then focus on a single meager improvement.)
Secondly, it seems to be a continuous refrain from Air Canada that because of some minor perceived problem with a potential solution, the solution needs to be abandoned completely. Often it sounds more like "it's tooooooooo haaaaaaarrrrrrddddd..." Other times it just seems like an excuse to not do something. (The decade long campaign for lifetime status comes to mind.)
There are two examples within this very thread - using alleged privacy concerns to justify not making upgrade lists publicly available, and the perceived threat of "irrational" travellers to apparently justify not doing, well, not doing lots of things I suppose.
As someone else noted, the privacy concerns can easily be overcome in lots of ways - using initials, using 3+1 naming like the American carriers do, using the last few digits of the Aeroplan number, using the last few digits of the ticket number (as printed on the boarding pass), and so on. I'm sure there are more ways yet.
As for the irrational, they will continue to be irrational no matter what. On the other hand, the normally rational can be driven over the edge by a lot of absurd things airlines do. If you are concerned that someone will complain that they were #6 on the upgrade list and now they are #7, then you simply need to make it clear before they can access the list that the list is not guaranteed and always subject to change. For good measure, you might include a few examples as to why.
This fear of... damn near everything... but mostly the fear of not being perfect leads to paralysis. It's been the subject of cultural fables for millennia. We've all seen that too many times.
(BTW, if you think you have a problem why not, as often previously suggested by many, turn it over to the brain trust here. There is a huge conglomerate of creative, original thinking here -- as oft demonstrated by the way FTers take maximum advantage of FF programs and airlines.)
It's nice to see you here. The sudden burst of transparency is most refreshing.
For what it's worth, some unsolicited advice -- please pace yourselves. I don't think anyone wants you to OD/burn out on FT quickly. (Perhaps the moderators could set up a Q&A forum, wiki, or whatever else they have... where an "Ask an Exec" program might be set up.)
Two observations... both of which have been alluded to earlier.
The first is if you are going to cut back some service and benefit, just come out and state it directly. Justify it if you have to, but be direct. I'm certain a great deal of anger has been unnecessarily generated because of the perceived insult of many "enhancements." I'm equally sure that if it was addressed directly, people would still be unhappy or disappointed in the cutback, but at least they wouldn't be insulted. As well, the issue would likely fade much more quickly. (Likewise, don't announce a bunch of major cutbacks then focus on a single meager improvement.)
Secondly, it seems to be a continuous refrain from Air Canada that because of some minor perceived problem with a potential solution, the solution needs to be abandoned completely. Often it sounds more like "it's tooooooooo haaaaaaarrrrrrddddd..." Other times it just seems like an excuse to not do something. (The decade long campaign for lifetime status comes to mind.)
There are two examples within this very thread - using alleged privacy concerns to justify not making upgrade lists publicly available, and the perceived threat of "irrational" travellers to apparently justify not doing, well, not doing lots of things I suppose.
As someone else noted, the privacy concerns can easily be overcome in lots of ways - using initials, using 3+1 naming like the American carriers do, using the last few digits of the Aeroplan number, using the last few digits of the ticket number (as printed on the boarding pass), and so on. I'm sure there are more ways yet.
As for the irrational, they will continue to be irrational no matter what. On the other hand, the normally rational can be driven over the edge by a lot of absurd things airlines do. If you are concerned that someone will complain that they were #6 on the upgrade list and now they are #7, then you simply need to make it clear before they can access the list that the list is not guaranteed and always subject to change. For good measure, you might include a few examples as to why.
This fear of... damn near everything... but mostly the fear of not being perfect leads to paralysis. It's been the subject of cultural fables for millennia. We've all seen that too many times.
(BTW, if you think you have a problem why not, as often previously suggested by many, turn it over to the brain trust here. There is a huge conglomerate of creative, original thinking here -- as oft demonstrated by the way FTers take maximum advantage of FF programs and airlines.)
May 16, 2014, 8:19 pm
#294
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
This is a challenging one.
Flyers and companies are often in conflict over how best to manage travel costs. It always amazes me how well paid employees are often forced to wait or take less optimal routings to save small amounts of money which in my books is false economy. The strong desire of many travel managers, corporate fulfilment houses and GDS companies to try and commoditize travel makes it challenging for us to offer you as many choices as possible. However we will continue to try and expand our choice offerings so that travellers and companies can customize their purchases to match their individual needs.
Flyers and companies are often in conflict over how best to manage travel costs. It always amazes me how well paid employees are often forced to wait or take less optimal routings to save small amounts of money which in my books is false economy. The strong desire of many travel managers, corporate fulfilment houses and GDS companies to try and commoditize travel makes it challenging for us to offer you as many choices as possible. However we will continue to try and expand our choice offerings so that travellers and companies can customize their purchases to match their individual needs.
May 16, 2014, 8:22 pm
#295
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: YYZ
Programs: UA1K2MM ACMME50 SQPPS HHDiamond Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 4,391
Welcome Ben.
My Business Travel is to SYD, LHR, GRU ,LAX & SFO.
I am very concern about booking 77W or 77L & few days before travel ending up on The Slave Ship or be Rouged.
In April I booked Z YYZ-YVR , I thought I had booked 77W. Only to discover it was Slave Ship. I am not happy.
Having been burnt in April & in light of YVR-SFO & YVR - LAX being rouged without notice, all my bookings for next 3 months to SYD, LHR & GRU I have moved to United
My question are we going to be given advance notice if & when SYD, LHR or GRU go to Slave Ship? there is no way I am doing 10+ hours in Slave Ship.
In May 2004 ten years ago I moved my Travel to United due to poor AC customer service. Flew United ,credited to AC .
In 2011 to current bought 50% of my travel back to AC.
With AC putting Slave Ship & Rouge without notice, do I move my travels to SYD, LHR, GRU, LAX & SFO back to United & Credit to AC Or moving forward does AC plan to give several months notice when Routes are going to be Rouged or end up with Slave Ships; Or AC plans to continue to surprise us per YVR-LAX or YVR-SFO?
My Business Travel is to SYD, LHR, GRU ,LAX & SFO.
I am very concern about booking 77W or 77L & few days before travel ending up on The Slave Ship or be Rouged.
In April I booked Z YYZ-YVR , I thought I had booked 77W. Only to discover it was Slave Ship. I am not happy.
Having been burnt in April & in light of YVR-SFO & YVR - LAX being rouged without notice, all my bookings for next 3 months to SYD, LHR & GRU I have moved to United
My question are we going to be given advance notice if & when SYD, LHR or GRU go to Slave Ship? there is no way I am doing 10+ hours in Slave Ship.
In May 2004 ten years ago I moved my Travel to United due to poor AC customer service. Flew United ,credited to AC .
In 2011 to current bought 50% of my travel back to AC.
With AC putting Slave Ship & Rouge without notice, do I move my travels to SYD, LHR, GRU, LAX & SFO back to United & Credit to AC Or moving forward does AC plan to give several months notice when Routes are going to be Rouged or end up with Slave Ships; Or AC plans to continue to surprise us per YVR-LAX or YVR-SFO?
May 16, 2014, 8:50 pm
#296
Join Date: May 2013
Location: YYZ
Posts: 585
New AC Presence on FT
hi ben, can we please have the following boarding process?
need assistance
SE, J
elite, *G
general
I don't want 35 and 50k's boarding before me. dykwia, sure but I want my OH space no matter what
this is especially an issue on embraers where J only has actual Carry on space on one side for 8+ pax and its basically unacceptable that a 35k in J gets better and earlier bin access them me.
OH bin access is literally the only benefit of early boarding. no one enjoys watching 100 people shuffle past then in a narrow aircraft cabin
need assistance
SE, J
elite, *G
general
I don't want 35 and 50k's boarding before me. dykwia, sure but I want my OH space no matter what
this is especially an issue on embraers where J only has actual Carry on space on one side for 8+ pax and its basically unacceptable that a 35k in J gets better and earlier bin access them me.
OH bin access is literally the only benefit of early boarding. no one enjoys watching 100 people shuffle past then in a narrow aircraft cabin
May 16, 2014, 8:58 pm
#297
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: YFC
Programs: AC*SE100K; Marriott Titanium; NEXUS
Posts: 1,523
(BTW, if you think you have a problem why not, as often previously suggested by many, turn it over to the brain trust here. There is a huge conglomerate of creative, original thinking here -- as oft demonstrated by the way FTers take maximum advantage of FF programs and airlines.)
In all seriousness, though, this could certainly work on some things if there were trust on both sides.
May 16, 2014, 9:18 pm
#298
formerly with Air Canada
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: YYZ YUL
Posts: 423
Second request is specific to the YYC-IAH route. What would it take to get the E90 onto this route to replace CRA. The flight is nearly four hours and the CRA is too cramped for a flight of this length. UA puts 737s on this run and they take the lions share of the company travel budget. However a lot of flyers in my office would take AC option if better equipment we're put onto the route.
May 16, 2014, 9:20 pm
#299
formerly with Air Canada
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: YYZ YUL
Posts: 423
Third and final request.
What would it take to gets specific UA routes into the flight pass program. For example if the western continental flight pass we're able to offer YYC-DEN services, then my company would buy a lot of them.
I realize that offer the full UA network is not possible, but certain specific route (YYC-IAH and DeN would really help out pulling more travel over to AC. For example we also fly to YYZ and YHZ very frequently with about half the travellers going WS.
What would it take to gets specific UA routes into the flight pass program. For example if the western continental flight pass we're able to offer YYC-DEN services, then my company would buy a lot of them.
I realize that offer the full UA network is not possible, but certain specific route (YYC-IAH and DeN would really help out pulling more travel over to AC. For example we also fly to YYZ and YHZ very frequently with about half the travellers going WS.
This is especially challenging due to the numerous carve outs the Cdn Competition Bureau has placed on this proposal.
May 16, 2014, 9:24 pm
#300
formerly with Air Canada
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: YYZ YUL
Posts: 423
One size fits all not easy with this program. As you can imagine the dollars spent and relative profit to AC from a MM 2MM 3MM can vary extensively. Unless we attach a minimum spend to this program I don't see us making any significant changes in the short-term. It's already a big (lifetime) commitment on our part.