AC Presence on FT
May 17, 2014, 8:17 am
#346
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,393
Frequent flyers are rewarded in many ways, on a recurrent basis, whether one finds the benefits sufficient or not is their business.
May 17, 2014, 8:28 am
#347
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YEG
Programs: AC Lifetime SE100K, 3MM, SPG Lifetime Plat, Hertz PC, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,901
Hi Ben,
Was the MM program primarily intended to encourage someone to fly millions of miles with AC, or was the intent to thank those that have by rewarding them with a token of appreciation?
It is not true to say that nobody likes the current structure (2MM), I appreciate the gift that you have allowed me to pass on to someone important to me. That doesn't mean I am opposed to options. Having said that; if I do my friend a favor and he thanks me with a gift certificate at Starbucks, I would never tell him I would prefer a gift from Tim's.
Was the MM program primarily intended to encourage someone to fly millions of miles with AC, or was the intent to thank those that have by rewarding them with a token of appreciation?
It is not true to say that nobody likes the current structure (2MM), I appreciate the gift that you have allowed me to pass on to someone important to me. That doesn't mean I am opposed to options. Having said that; if I do my friend a favor and he thanks me with a gift certificate at Starbucks, I would never tell him I would prefer a gift from Tim's.
May 17, 2014, 8:28 am
#348
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,166
I know some people have said that we shouldn't debate other questions but....
Which airline does this?
I'm only farmilar with a few others, and on UA you CANNOT use GPUs on low fares period to many international destinations, and even if you could they only apply to 1K (SE) level.
Which airline does this?
I'm only farmilar with a few others, and on UA you CANNOT use GPUs on low fares period to many international destinations, and even if you could they only apply to 1K (SE) level.
Having said that, I was also referring to the top-tier upgrade instruments: UA's GPUs, DL's GUCs, and AA's systemwide upgrades.
I believe all of them clear immediately if there's positive upgrade inventory.
And yes, I know UA's GPUs only apply for W+ fares, that's why I said "flex equivalent on AC".
May 17, 2014, 8:58 am
#349
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,810
Many decisions that we like to criticize here (but may not really affect us FFs all that much) start making more sense when a reasonable explanation is provided.
May 17, 2014, 9:16 am
#350
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: YYZ most of the time
Programs: AC SE100K MM, Princess Elite
Posts: 3,921
Maybe I should have been clearer in my post, but I meant to compare AC against other NA carriers when I said "others".
Having said that, I was also referring to the top-tier upgrade instruments: UA's GPUs, DL's GUCs, and AA's systemwide upgrades.
I believe all of them clear immediately if there's positive upgrade inventory.
And yes, I know UA's GPUs only apply for W+ fares, that's why I said "flex equivalent on AC".
Having said that, I was also referring to the top-tier upgrade instruments: UA's GPUs, DL's GUCs, and AA's systemwide upgrades.
I believe all of them clear immediately if there's positive upgrade inventory.
And yes, I know UA's GPUs only apply for W+ fares, that's why I said "flex equivalent on AC".
May 17, 2014, 9:26 am
#351
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,393
Thanks for the lecture but as you will know earnings announcements often include general information that is not necessarily privileged or confidential - but for the sake of peace I will defer to your superior intellect. To this point: the posts in this very thread are full of speculation and promises of things to come that have not been officially announced. By the way I think either Ben1 or Ben2 can speak for themselves and don't need you to do it for them.
Anyway you failed to see my point or add my full quote that Ben2 said "No decision had been made" when clearly that was not true. It would probably have better to say nothing then. FT is full of speculation, inaccuracies and rumour I personally don't need to see more from an official company rep.
Listen, I'm impressed so far but having suffered a lot of bs from AC over the past several years it will take more that 3 days to convince me that this is a genuine attempt to do the right thing. I truly hope it continues and there is some continued honest dialogue - we will see.
Anyway you failed to see my point or add my full quote that Ben2 said "No decision had been made" when clearly that was not true. It would probably have better to say nothing then. FT is full of speculation, inaccuracies and rumour I personally don't need to see more from an official company rep.
Listen, I'm impressed so far but having suffered a lot of bs from AC over the past several years it will take more that 3 days to convince me that this is a genuine attempt to do the right thing. I truly hope it continues and there is some continued honest dialogue - we will see.
May 17, 2014, 9:26 am
#352
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 2,343
Rollout of additional preferred seating
Ben and Ben,
Thanks again for the continued dialog - this has been extremely helpful in addressing some of the concerns from your top tier members.
One of the areas I'd like to pass along feedback and ask about is the rollout of additional preferred seats. I'm happy to see additional preferred seats, as at 6'3", legroom is a major concern. I'm disappointed at how it's been rolled out, though.
In the past, as an E50 I could typically book the priority seats at the front of Y (typically rows 13-18 or so). With the rollout of preferred seats, the only rows towards the front that E50 passengers now have access to on a Flex fare without paying additional seating fees are the bulkhead. This has been a major downgrade for E50/E35/P25 passengers, and E75's on Tango fares as it removes a significant chunk of desirable Y seats that mid tier Elites could access previously.
As an example - I just booked 4 segments on aircraft with the new configuration for YYC-YYZ segments. In 3 out of the 4 segments, the bulkhead was taken, but rows 13~17 had plenty of space, but I can't access them without paying a extra fee on top of my already expensive Flex fare. As a result, I'm now at the back of the bus, even though there is plenty of space towards the front in the new preferred seating (formerly priority seating) rows. As well, these seats turn into a free-for-all when OLCI opens, so my only chances of getting a seat towards the front is to try to check in immediately at T-24, but I'm competing with non-status pax trying to get a seat assignment.
I know AC Altitude said on FT that expanded eligibility was coming, but this has been a major downgrade for several months. Any word on when the updated eligibility will be announced? As part of the rollout, why do you need to wait until the aircraft changes are complete to update your eligibility rules? If you are planning to open up more preferred seats to E50's and other elite members, why not update the rules now to reflect the intended end state or provide some clarity on what the rules will be? Right now this is disappointing that mid-tier Elites are getting stuck at the back of the bus because of the new rules.
Thanks again for the continued dialog - this has been extremely helpful in addressing some of the concerns from your top tier members.
One of the areas I'd like to pass along feedback and ask about is the rollout of additional preferred seats. I'm happy to see additional preferred seats, as at 6'3", legroom is a major concern. I'm disappointed at how it's been rolled out, though.
In the past, as an E50 I could typically book the priority seats at the front of Y (typically rows 13-18 or so). With the rollout of preferred seats, the only rows towards the front that E50 passengers now have access to on a Flex fare without paying additional seating fees are the bulkhead. This has been a major downgrade for E50/E35/P25 passengers, and E75's on Tango fares as it removes a significant chunk of desirable Y seats that mid tier Elites could access previously.
As an example - I just booked 4 segments on aircraft with the new configuration for YYC-YYZ segments. In 3 out of the 4 segments, the bulkhead was taken, but rows 13~17 had plenty of space, but I can't access them without paying a extra fee on top of my already expensive Flex fare. As a result, I'm now at the back of the bus, even though there is plenty of space towards the front in the new preferred seating (formerly priority seating) rows. As well, these seats turn into a free-for-all when OLCI opens, so my only chances of getting a seat towards the front is to try to check in immediately at T-24, but I'm competing with non-status pax trying to get a seat assignment.
I know AC Altitude said on FT that expanded eligibility was coming, but this has been a major downgrade for several months. Any word on when the updated eligibility will be announced? As part of the rollout, why do you need to wait until the aircraft changes are complete to update your eligibility rules? If you are planning to open up more preferred seats to E50's and other elite members, why not update the rules now to reflect the intended end state or provide some clarity on what the rules will be? Right now this is disappointing that mid-tier Elites are getting stuck at the back of the bus because of the new rules.
Last edited by gcashin; May 17, 2014 at 9:47 am Reason: update for clarity
May 17, 2014, 9:42 am
#353
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,166
Where did I say mid-tier members should not need to pay the co-pay?
I'm not arguing the co-pay here.
I'm just saying if you use upgrade instruments at other NA airlines on flex-equivalent fares, you can confirm your seat right away while you can't do the same on AC for flex fares.
And I asked Ben if this could be something that could possibly change.
May 17, 2014, 9:45 am
#354
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AC E35K, NEXUS
Posts: 4,368
In the past, as an E50 I could typically book the priority seats at the front of Y (typically rows 13-18 or so). With the rollout of preferred seats, the only rows towards the front that E50 passengers now have access to on a Flex fare without paying additional seating fees are the bulkhead. This has been a major downgrade for E50/E35/P25 passengers, and E75's on Tango fares as it removes a significant chunk of desirable Y seats that mid tier Elites could access previously.
As an example - I just booked 4 segments on aircraft with the new configuration for YYC-YYZ segments. In 3 out of the 4 segments, the bulkhead was taken, but rows 13~17 had plenty of space, but I can't access them without paying a extra fee on top of my already expensive Flex fare. As a result, I'm now at the back of the bus, even though there is plenty of space towards the front in the new preferred seating (formerly priority seating) rows. As well, these seats turn into a free-for-all when OLCI opens, so my only chances of getting a seat towards the front is to try to check in immediately at T-24, but I'm competing with non-status pax trying to get a seat assignment.
I know AC Altitude said on FT that expanded eligibility was coming for E50's, but this has been a major downgrade for several months. Any word on when the updated eligibility will be announced? As part of the rollout, why do you need to wait until the aircraft changes are complete to update your eligibility rules? If you are planning to open up more preferred seats to E50's and other elite members, why not update the rules now to reflect the intended end state or provide some clarity on what the rules will be? Right now this is disappointing that mid-tier Elites are getting stuck at the back of the bus because of the new rules.
As an example - I just booked 4 segments on aircraft with the new configuration for YYC-YYZ segments. In 3 out of the 4 segments, the bulkhead was taken, but rows 13~17 had plenty of space, but I can't access them without paying a extra fee on top of my already expensive Flex fare. As a result, I'm now at the back of the bus, even though there is plenty of space towards the front in the new preferred seating (formerly priority seating) rows. As well, these seats turn into a free-for-all when OLCI opens, so my only chances of getting a seat towards the front is to try to check in immediately at T-24, but I'm competing with non-status pax trying to get a seat assignment.
I know AC Altitude said on FT that expanded eligibility was coming for E50's, but this has been a major downgrade for several months. Any word on when the updated eligibility will be announced? As part of the rollout, why do you need to wait until the aircraft changes are complete to update your eligibility rules? If you are planning to open up more preferred seats to E50's and other elite members, why not update the rules now to reflect the intended end state or provide some clarity on what the rules will be? Right now this is disappointing that mid-tier Elites are getting stuck at the back of the bus because of the new rules.
May 17, 2014, 10:01 am
#355
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC-SE MM
Posts: 1,251
I believe the privileges/benefits are part of the actual product, and if one buys a full J ticket - as opposed to discounted J - they are buying the product and entitled to all the privileges/benefits of said product. Period. Full stop. No exceptions. The key is full J.
Frequent flyers are rewarded in many ways, on a recurrent basis, whether one finds the benefits sufficient or not is their business.
Frequent flyers are rewarded in many ways, on a recurrent basis, whether one finds the benefits sufficient or not is their business.
May 17, 2014, 11:01 am
#356
Join Date: Jul 2012
Programs: AC SE & 2MM, SPG Plat
Posts: 42
I am at 1.7MM, but with recent changes to E50k, see very little incentive to push it hard to get to 2MM. Will reduce my AC miles by about 50k this year, will still hit SE100k, but moving all rouged routes and HKG to other carriers. This is a significant amount of dollars going elsewhere.
May 17, 2014, 12:34 pm
#357
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: YVR
Programs: ACSEMM QRGold SPGLifetimePlat FairmontPlat HyattD AMEXCenturion SerenaPlat TalkBoard Founding Member
Posts: 8,963
I am at 1.7MM, but with recent changes to E50k, see very little incentive to push it hard to get to 2MM. Will reduce my AC miles by about 50k this year, will still hit SE100k, but moving all rouged routes and HKG to other carriers. This is a significant amount of dollars going elsewhere.
As carriers like QR, EK, EY and TK expand their route network we have been moving travel over to those carriers gradually. I travel to East Africa every month and I'm really enjoying QR and TK for the route (YVRYYZIST... and YVRYYZDOH...) over the AC route (YVRYULBRU...).
May 17, 2014, 1:12 pm
#358
Join Date: Dec 2010
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 1,022
Is there a point to this? AC will be the first airline to carry discriminatory seating to the J cabin. What next - seats 8A in 763; 6A, 11A and all the back seats in 77W and 77L; 9A and 13A in 333; 4D, 5G and similar seats in 77HD .... which have more privacy, storage and work space will be declared preferred seats to be fought over by top tier/paid J? The plan to reserve the 6 single seats for special groups is unnecessary especially given the lack of consensus on their suitability for rest and sleep. Ben Smith should look at the data for occupancy before implementing that decision. They may show that those seats are most likely occupied by the preferred groups. On international flights, the likelihood that pax with status lower than SE sit there is remote unless they bought Latitude or Flexible PE enabling instant upgrade at booking if R-space exists. Maybe, this plan is a forerunner of one that would put an extra cash charge on the seats.
May 17, 2014, 1:20 pm
#359
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ottawa
Programs: AC, SPG, HH +others
Posts: 389
These are space available upgrades and you only have a right to sit in the cabin that you paid for but if upgrades are going to be given out then let's not punish the FF with a system that is biased towards separating couples. Ever hear of "happy wife, happy life"? In my mind the only time the upgrade in this situation should be split is if there is only 1 seat left.
May 17, 2014, 1:22 pm
#360
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: YVR
Programs: ACSEMM QRGold SPGLifetimePlat FairmontPlat HyattD AMEXCenturion SerenaPlat TalkBoard Founding Member
Posts: 8,963
Is there a point to this? AC will be the first airline to carry discriminatory seating to the J cabin. What next - seats 8A in 763; 6A, 11A and all the back seats in 77W and 77L; 9A and 13A in 333; 4D, 5G and similar seats in 77HD .... which have more privacy, storage and work space will be declared preferred seats to be fought over by top tier/paid J? The plan to reserve the 6 single seats for special groups is unnecessary especially given the lack of consensus on their suitability for rest and sleep. Ben Smith should look at the data for occupancy before implementing that decision. They may show that those seats are most likely occupied by the preferred groups. On international flights, the likelihood that pax with status lower than SE sit there is remote unless they bought Latitude or Flexible PE enabling instant upgrade at booking if R-space exists. Maybe, this plan is a forerunner of one that would put an extra cash charge on the seats.