AC Baggage Handlers Toss Bags 20Ft! VIDEO!
Apr 20, 2014, 6:06 pm
#151
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: YVR, YUL, YEG
Programs: AC-SE MM, Marriott Platinum, HH Diamond
Posts: 273
This is just a case of really bad optics, these bags were dropped ~20ft? Not too damaging - it just looks really, really bad to general public...
I would prefer that bags are know thrown around, but the reality is that bags get a rough handling throughout the entire trip - you just don't see it.
I've seen bags fall out of planes from a greater height when cargo doors are opened, and I have seen what happens to bags in the innards of various airport baggage handling systems - it's all a lot worse that what is shown in the video.
Apr 20, 2014, 6:23 pm
#152
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Why? Why? Zed! / Why? You? Elle! / Gee! Are You!
Programs: Irrelevant
Posts: 3,543
What I saw in the video all seemed to be of the type that would also be checked in. It looked like they had the roller wheels, pull out handle, etc. I did see one duffel bag - no idea what was in it. I have check duffel bags many times - never with AC though - but that's just because AC is slow as hell at getting bags to the carousel. Actually, if it turns out that a trip of mine required a checked back - usually due to duration, location, etc I used to cancel my AC booking and book on a different carrier - just so I wouldn't have to wait an inordinate amount of time to get my bags when I arrive back home.
Last edited by jaysona; Apr 20, 2014 at 6:33 pm
Apr 20, 2014, 6:32 pm
#153
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Classic! So here's how this is going to play out:
AC fires baggage handlers, lets it leak to the public. PR disaster is defused, at least as best they can for now. News coverage dies down. Fired employees grieve, union takes the grievance to AC. After the usual arm waving by lawyers, they settle, or maybe take it to arbitration to make the point. Since these arbitrations are held behind closed doors, we'll never know if it happens, nor the outcome if it does. Fired employees will be reinstated with full back pay and a written reprimand on their file.
In a few weeks they'll be back on the job and we'll never know. In the meantime, all the other baggage handlers will carry bags down the stairs one by one at a snail's pace, claim back injuries and go on compo.
AC fires baggage handlers, lets it leak to the public. PR disaster is defused, at least as best they can for now. News coverage dies down. Fired employees grieve, union takes the grievance to AC. After the usual arm waving by lawyers, they settle, or maybe take it to arbitration to make the point. Since these arbitrations are held behind closed doors, we'll never know if it happens, nor the outcome if it does. Fired employees will be reinstated with full back pay and a written reprimand on their file.
In a few weeks they'll be back on the job and we'll never know. In the meantime, all the other baggage handlers will carry bags down the stairs one by one at a snail's pace, claim back injuries and go on compo.
The second statement is just in poor taste.
I know two ramp leads - won't say which base(s) - and have heard many stories stories that are even worse than what Sopwith has indicated.
I know a few former AC maintenance people who have told me stories where other maintenance personnel just didn't feel like working on a particular task that day, of course management would try to get the AME do their job, the AME would just tell management to "f off" and then they'd go home for the day. Back at work the next day - like nothing happened.
This happens everywhere that a union is involved - been there done that, didn't like it and left.
Last edited by tcook052; Apr 20, 2014 at 9:36 pm
Apr 20, 2014, 6:44 pm
#154
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Hmmm....not so sure about that, perhaps Sopwith knows something you don't....
I know two ramp leads - won't say which base(s) - and have heard many stories stories that are even worse than what Sopwith has indicated.
I know a few former AC maintenance people who have told me stories where other maintenance personnel just didn't feel like working on a particular task that day, of course management would try to get the AME do their job, the AME would just tell management to "f off" and then they'd go home for the day. Back at work the next day - like nothing happened.
This happens everywhere that a union is involved - been there done that, didn't like it and left.
I know two ramp leads - won't say which base(s) - and have heard many stories stories that are even worse than what Sopwith has indicated.
I know a few former AC maintenance people who have told me stories where other maintenance personnel just didn't feel like working on a particular task that day, of course management would try to get the AME do their job, the AME would just tell management to "f off" and then they'd go home for the day. Back at work the next day - like nothing happened.
This happens everywhere that a union is involved - been there done that, didn't like it and left.
It's like this...At AC there are two "get out of jail cards" that unionized employees at AC can use:
1. Safety First
2. They could steel a plane and be caught doing it in the act; all they have to say is that "they have a problem". Once they acknowledge to Management that they "have a problem" and go to counseling, AA etc. they are sprayed with Teflon...NOTHING sticks. The worse I have seen in a long time was about 5 years back or more at YVR base. A bunch of FA's were buying large amounts of copy bags, watches etc. and were STUPID enough to be selling them from the Employee Parking Lot. Corporate Security caught them and the Company was pushing for termination. The employees in question were given leave without pay pending the "investigation". The result was they were re-instated back with back pay and the only thing the Company was able to get was a 10 year suspension of no pass privileges because it violated the T&C's of pass privileges clearly stating not for commercial use.
Last edited by tcook052; Apr 20, 2014 at 9:36 pm
Apr 20, 2014, 6:49 pm
#155
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 286
Hmmm....not so sure about that, perhaps Sopwith knows something you don't....
I know two ramp leads - won't say which base(s) - and have heard many stories stories that are even worse than what Sopwith has indicated.
I know a few former AC maintenance people who have told me stories where other maintenance personnel just didn't feel like working on a particular task that day, of course management would try to get the AME do their job, the AME would just tell management to "f off" and then they'd go home for the day. Back at work the next day - like nothing happened.
This happens everywhere that a union is involved - been there done that, didn't like it and left.
I know two ramp leads - won't say which base(s) - and have heard many stories stories that are even worse than what Sopwith has indicated.
I know a few former AC maintenance people who have told me stories where other maintenance personnel just didn't feel like working on a particular task that day, of course management would try to get the AME do their job, the AME would just tell management to "f off" and then they'd go home for the day. Back at work the next day - like nothing happened.
This happens everywhere that a union is involved - been there done that, didn't like it and left.
Last edited by tcook052; Apr 20, 2014 at 9:36 pm
Apr 20, 2014, 6:51 pm
#156
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 286
I know many AC station attendants and FA's as well.
It's like this...At AC there are two "get out of jail cards" that unionized employees at AC can use:
1. Safety First
2. They could steel a plane and be caught doing it in the act; all they have to say is that "they have a problem". Once they acknowledge to Management that they "have a problem" and go to counseling, AA etc. they are sprayed with Teflon...NOTHING sticks. The worse I have seen in a long time was about 5 years back or more at YVR base. A bunch of FA's were buying large amounts of copy bags, watches etc. and were STUPID enough to be selling them from the Employee Parking Lot. Corporate Security caught them and the Company was pushing for termination. The employees in question were given leave without pay pending the "investigation". The result was they were re-instated back with back pay and the only thing the Company was able to get was a 10 year suspension of no pass privileges because it violated the T&C's of pass privileges clearly stating not for commercial use.
It's like this...At AC there are two "get out of jail cards" that unionized employees at AC can use:
1. Safety First
2. They could steel a plane and be caught doing it in the act; all they have to say is that "they have a problem". Once they acknowledge to Management that they "have a problem" and go to counseling, AA etc. they are sprayed with Teflon...NOTHING sticks. The worse I have seen in a long time was about 5 years back or more at YVR base. A bunch of FA's were buying large amounts of copy bags, watches etc. and were STUPID enough to be selling them from the Employee Parking Lot. Corporate Security caught them and the Company was pushing for termination. The employees in question were given leave without pay pending the "investigation". The result was they were re-instated back with back pay and the only thing the Company was able to get was a 10 year suspension of no pass privileges because it violated the T&C's of pass privileges clearly stating not for commercial use.
Apr 20, 2014, 6:57 pm
#157
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As pointed out, very hard to get fired at AC. IMO, these two ramp rats will claim safety first, that the bags weighed more than 32kgs (which they are obliged to lift as per their collective agreements and pre-employment contract conditions) and say they had no other way to do the job. They will maybe at best get a two week suspension without pay and be back. Better pray it is not really termination because every station attendant in YYZ will band together and do a "work to rule" situation for a couple of days and slow things down causing delays etc. in order to send Management a message.
Apr 20, 2014, 7:11 pm
#158
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Apr 20, 2014, 7:36 pm
#159
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 5,813
1 Senior exec
3 Pilots
3 In Charge
Look, I don't give a rats a*s if you don't believe me or require a notarized copy of their purchase order with some Boeing Executive blood dripped over the signature. How about you start delivering some inside information for once instead of just being a little kid running around our feet in circles?
3 Pilots
3 In Charge
Look, I don't give a rats a*s if you don't believe me or require a notarized copy of their purchase order with some Boeing Executive blood dripped over the signature. How about you start delivering some inside information for once instead of just being a little kid running around our feet in circles?
Flight Global, with well connected resources in the business, had an article AC was going NEO weeks before the order was finalized. It's thought by many that B came in late with an offer too good to refuse (E90 etc). Byut your pilot contacts knew "more than a year ago". Even when AC went on the record saying no decisions was made in response to FG article. Yeah, sure
Last edited by tcook052; Apr 20, 2014 at 9:40 pm
Apr 20, 2014, 7:44 pm
#160
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Erstwhile Accidental AC E35K
Posts: 2,918
By the way, the arm waving I mentioned is intended to allow the lawyers to run up the bill before they settle. If I sound cynical it's because I am. Even my guys got fed up with their own union and decertified last year.
Apr 20, 2014, 8:14 pm
#161
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AC E35K, NEXUS
Posts: 4,368
Airlines compete Globally with one another. OR should we just compare operational aspects of AC with the airlines you fly?
If you're claiming AC 777HD is an abomination, Can we bring up competing aircraft with competing airlines, OR should we just take your word for it?
If you're claiming AC 777HD is an abomination, Can we bring up competing aircraft with competing airlines, OR should we just take your word for it?
In this thread about the throwing of some bags and discussion about antecedents and sequelae, I have no interest in debating whether the acquisition of this aircraft is good, bad, or indifferent for AC competitiveness and profitability. I participate in FT to exchange information about what is good, bad, or indifferent for individual flyers. Feel free to discuss whatever else you want, but I'M not playing.
Last edited by flyquiet; Apr 20, 2014 at 9:06 pm Reason: brevity
Apr 20, 2014, 9:52 pm
#163
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: YVR
Programs: ACSEMM QRGold SPGLifetimePlat FairmontPlat HyattD AMEXCenturion SerenaPlat TalkBoard Founding Member
Posts: 8,963
Apr 20, 2014, 11:14 pm
#164
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Never home.
Posts: 2,971
At least the first 2 delivered originally had purple PE seats - Virgin colours. Refitted post-delivery in Mirabel to the current black. Neither of us can really be 100% sure as to the original airline they were destined for, but since the PE seats were originally for Virgin likely the entire airplane was ordered for the failed AC/Virgin TPAC JV idea.
Further, had they not been ordered by AC (on behalf of whom is irrelevant) from the start would they have been certified B777-333ERs by Boeing and Transport Canada, rather than a B777-38EER like OZ operates? I really don't know.
Further, had they not been ordered by AC (on behalf of whom is irrelevant) from the start would they have been certified B777-333ERs by Boeing and Transport Canada, rather than a B777-38EER like OZ operates? I really don't know.
Apr 20, 2014, 11:50 pm
#165
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 812
Well they did have a 50/50 chance of being right.