May 5, 2014, 8:21 pm
Last edit by: Arcanum
Flights operated by Air Canada rouge
NOTE: Rouge Wifi information can be found here
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-c...l#post28448087
Dates in brackets indicate planned start of rouge service (either as a new route or replacing mainline service). ML placed before a date indicates the date that service is reverting to mainline.
All Airbus A319/A321 service is in the new Premium Rouge configuration with 2x2J seats. All other routes are Boeing 767-300ER aircraft in a 24J/258Y layout.
Airport codes in blue indicate that these routes are Boeing 767-300ER aircraft for all services.
Airport codes in red indicate that these routes are split between Boeing 767-300ER and Airbus services.
Airport codes in black indicate that these routes are Airbus aircraft for all services.
Routes are organized based on the established rouge bases of YYZ, YUL, YYC, and YVR
*Seasonal Summer Service
YYZ
Canada
YQT YQY YXX YLW YYG (02MAY-OCT) YDF YQB YQM (01MAY19) YFC (01JUL19)
USA
MCO TPA LAS FLL HNL SRQ RSW SAN PHX MIA PSP (14DEC16)
Mexico
CUN PVR SJD
Caribbean
KIN NAS LIR GND MBJ AZS CCC CUR HUX PUJ POP SKB SJO SXM LRM HOG SNU UVF VRA BGI (07JAN) POS (21DEC16)
Europe
ATH BCN EDI VCE MAN LIS PRG BUD GLA LGW
Central and South America
LIM BOG PTY
YUL
USA
LAS MCO FLL PBI TPA MIA
Mexico
CUN MEX PVR (18NOV16)
Caribbean
ZSA CCC HOG PUJ SNU PLS POP PAP NAS (17JAN) PTP
Europe
FCO ATH BCN NCE VCE
Central and South America
SJO (22DEC16)
Africa
CMN
YYC
Canada
YHZ* YHM (2016)
USA
LAS PHX (winter only - PHX AC Express in summer)
YVR
USA
LAS HNL OGG PHX PSP KOA SAN (02JUN)
Mexico
CUN PVR
Asia
KIX
Europe
DUB LGA KEF
What to Do If Your Flight Has Been Rouged According to the AC Rep "Air Canada Altitude": call AC Reservations, cancel and get a refund.
Air Canada rouge, a leisure airline
Apr 27, 2015, 5:34 pm
#4861
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
In air travel, it apparently means consumers are cheap. Cheap insofar as they don't feel duty bound to subsidize badly run companies.
Bit simplistic to apportion blame to only one side. Many airlines the world over are providing similar mainline products at similar (often lower) prices.
Whether we should hold AC to a global standard is a whole other issue.
Apr 27, 2015, 5:45 pm
#4863
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE*2MM. SPG Plat life
Posts: 4,644
Air travel is a funny beast. In virtually every other sector, a company's inability to provide a globally competitive product at a globally competitive price is seen as a hallmark of incompetence and failure.
In air travel, it apparently means consumers are cheap. Cheap insofar as they don't feel duty bound to subsidize badly run companies.
Bit simplistic to apportion blame to only one side. Many airlines the world over are providing similar mainline products at similar (often lower) prices.
In air travel, it apparently means consumers are cheap. Cheap insofar as they don't feel duty bound to subsidize badly run companies.
Bit simplistic to apportion blame to only one side. Many airlines the world over are providing similar mainline products at similar (often lower) prices.
Apr 27, 2015, 5:53 pm
#4864
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
But I'm intrigued by the way you think. Maybe it is time to put AC under government control again. A non-profit cost recovery model perhaps? Cant possibly provide worse value-for-money than what we're getting today. And imagine how politically suicidal a Rouge product would be.
Apr 27, 2015, 5:59 pm
#4865
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,309
Apr 27, 2015, 5:59 pm
#4866
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: sqrt(-united states of apologist)
Programs: *$ Green
Posts: 5,403
I would say, rather, that in virtually every other sector, there will be company that strive by offering an "inferior" products to cheaper clients.
Hotels, car rentals, restaurants, clothing, supermarkets, schools, etc etc etc
Apr 27, 2015, 6:00 pm
#4867
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
Prices for similar product pricing are effected by many way. Europe, prices are generally higher. Asia, has a higher produced, with low prices in some cases because of labour laws and a few other factors. US airlines don't count because their product is of lower standard.
Basic economic reasoning suggests that a company that can't provide the same value proposition as its international peers ... isn't particularly well run.
Apr 27, 2015, 6:04 pm
#4868
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Never home.
Posts: 2,971
Aviation is treated as a government cash cow in Canada.
Apr 27, 2015, 6:04 pm
#4869
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
I would beg to disagree with this statement.
I would say, rather, that in virtually every other sector, there will be company that strive by offering an "inferior" products to cheaper clients.
Hotels, car rentals, restaurants, clothing, supermarkets, schools, etc etc etc
I would say, rather, that in virtually every other sector, there will be company that strive by offering an "inferior" products to cheaper clients.
Hotels, car rentals, restaurants, clothing, supermarkets, schools, etc etc etc
Apr 27, 2015, 6:05 pm
#4870
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE*2MM. SPG Plat life
Posts: 4,644
Some airlines can give out more than others. Some airlines can give the same for a lot less.
But I'm intrigued by the way you think. Maybe it is time to put AC under government control again. A non-profit cost recovery model perhaps? Cant possibly provide worse value-for-money than what we're getting today. And imagine how politically suicidal a Rouge product would be.
But I'm intrigued by the way you think. Maybe it is time to put AC under government control again. A non-profit cost recovery model perhaps? Cant possibly provide worse value-for-money than what we're getting today. And imagine how politically suicidal a Rouge product would be.
Apr 27, 2015, 6:09 pm
#4871
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
Or common sense says it has a lot more to do with the structure of aviation differing globally, such as Canada's user-pay model including high aviation fuel taxes to subsidize general government revenue, recently upped in Ontario by Wynne.
Aviation is treated as a government cash cow in Canada.
Aviation is treated as a government cash cow in Canada.
Forget user pay, some countries just engage in cash grabs (UK APD anyone?).
Apr 27, 2015, 6:37 pm
#4873
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: sqrt(-united states of apologist)
Programs: *$ Green
Posts: 5,403
This point comes up every time, and is dismissed every time.
Just because a route used to sell for $X when it was main line service, it does not mean that it should be sold for $X - 10% once converted to rouge.
The idea is that, the routes where main line service used to operate at a loss, got turned to rouge. So with tickets selling for just as much as they used to, the company now makes a profit.
This means that, instead of just shutting down the route completely, AC continues to offer the route at a lower cost to allow it to start turning a profit on the route.
So, just because you get Rouge, it does not mean that it will be cheaper for you. And if a route gets rouged, then you can bet on the fact that the route was not profitable in the first place.
Apr 27, 2015, 6:39 pm
#4874
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 812
Nonono.
This point comes up every time, and is dismissed every time.
Just because a route used to sell for $X when it was main line service, it does not mean that it should be sold for $X - 10% once converted to rouge.
The idea is that, the routes where main line service used to operate at a loss, got turned to rouge. So with tickets selling for just as much as they used to, the company now makes a profit.
This means that, instead of just shutting down the route completely, AC continues to offer the route at a lower cost to allow it to start turning a profit on the route.
So, just because you get Rouge, it does not mean that it will be cheaper for you. And if a route gets rouged, then you can bet on the fact that the route was not profitable in the first place.
This point comes up every time, and is dismissed every time.
Just because a route used to sell for $X when it was main line service, it does not mean that it should be sold for $X - 10% once converted to rouge.
The idea is that, the routes where main line service used to operate at a loss, got turned to rouge. So with tickets selling for just as much as they used to, the company now makes a profit.
This means that, instead of just shutting down the route completely, AC continues to offer the route at a lower cost to allow it to start turning a profit on the route.
So, just because you get Rouge, it does not mean that it will be cheaper for you. And if a route gets rouged, then you can bet on the fact that the route was not profitable in the first place.
Apr 27, 2015, 7:09 pm
#4875
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
Nonono.
This point comes up every time, and is dismissed every time.
Just because a route used to sell for $X when it was main line service, it does not mean that it should be sold for $X - 10% once converted to rouge.
The idea is that, the routes where main line service used to operate at a loss, got turned to rouge. So with tickets selling for just as much as they used to, the company now makes a profit.
This means that, instead of just shutting down the route completely, AC continues to offer the route at a lower cost to allow it to start turning a profit on the route.
So, just because you get Rouge, it does not mean that it will be cheaper for you. And if a route gets rouged, then you can bet on the fact that the route was not profitable in the first place.
This point comes up every time, and is dismissed every time.
Just because a route used to sell for $X when it was main line service, it does not mean that it should be sold for $X - 10% once converted to rouge.
The idea is that, the routes where main line service used to operate at a loss, got turned to rouge. So with tickets selling for just as much as they used to, the company now makes a profit.
This means that, instead of just shutting down the route completely, AC continues to offer the route at a lower cost to allow it to start turning a profit on the route.
So, just because you get Rouge, it does not mean that it will be cheaper for you. And if a route gets rouged, then you can bet on the fact that the route was not profitable in the first place.
In any event, your argument implies that the price point ($X) at which AC was selling the product was so low that, when applied to a Rouge product, it would end up providing a globally competitive value-for-money proposition. Problem is - any number of US or EU LCCs and ULCCs that offer far better value-for-money.
Point being: the customer may not be willing to pay more than $X, but AC can't provide anything better than Rouge at $X. Other airlines operating in far more competitive circumstances (or perhaps because of it) can provide better value for money. As, indeed, they do - the world over.
If AC can only turn a profit by providing bare bones service while others can provide better service at the same price, perhaps it's time to look at managenent of the airline, instead of blaming 'cheap' pax.
Last edited by yulred; Apr 27, 2015 at 7:25 pm