Official 2013 Category Changes - effective 5 March 2013
#151
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NAPA
Programs: MARRIOTT LIFETIME TITANIUM ELITE, HYATT LIFETIME GLOBALIST, UAL SILVER, AA EXECUTIVE PLATINUM
Posts: 476
#152
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: India
Programs: Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, IHG Plat, HH Gold, Trident Plat, DL Diamond, AI Maharajah
Posts: 29,678
#153
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 62
Honestly, saying "to hell with it" and doing those above things can be a net win for all of us, so maybe a lot of flyertalkers should just spend the year trying out some independent hotels, or even better, simply booking the most awesome deal in the area regardless of brand (priceline anyone?).
The savings would be far greater than blindly spending close to 50 grand at the same chain, competition be damned, to get refunded a few measly nights at (what starwood decides is) a cat 7 property. Bank the huge savings, consider those your "points" and book another great deal for your vacation.
I am starting to think that anyone demanding "value" from loyalty programs is really just spending more money than someone who is spending their money on good deals. Yes, they get some room upgrades and warm and fuzzy status, but they've certainly spent more. These programs exist to increase revenue, after all.
A first rule of business in most industries is not to ever take features away from customers if you want them coming back. Under-promise and over-deliver on the experience. The hotel chains all of a sudden seem to have forgotten this. Thank the airlines I guess.
Yes, I know that this analysis ignores the fact that lots of people are earning their points on their company's dime. But devaluing points still affects the loyalty of these customers.
#154
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
Programs: UA-1k, 1mm, Marriott-LT Platinum, Hertz-Presidents Circle
Posts: 6,355
I am starting to think that anyone demanding "value" from loyalty programs is really just spending more money than someone who is spending their money on good deals. Yes, they get some room upgrades and warm and fuzzy status, but they've certainly spent more. These programs exist to increase revenue, after all.
.
This is what is happening to Hilton now IMO. Some loyal Hilton customers now have a reason to look elsewhere because of the serious devaluation. In short I don't agree with your reasoning of price lining hotel stays and banking the difference and considering this your points. I get a hell of a lot of value for my points and I put a monetary value on the benefits I get for breakfast, internet, upgrades, lounge access, late check out etc. To minimize the benefits or dismiss them altogether as you have done is ignorant for almost any savvy FTer.
#155
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MKE
Programs: SPG-Plat, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Plat, IHG-Plat
Posts: 86
What the hotels are seemingly failing to realize is the biggest competition is, to put bluntly, "just booking for the best deals". As these loyalty programs get devalued, that's what's going to happen. Loyalty programs exist to keep rates high by discouraging "shopping around" and resulting increased competition and price pressure. And harming these programs will bring more people to 3rd party sites, boutique hotels, cashback/retail rewards credit cards, and up and coming programs like Club Carlson that have actually improved their redemptions year over year. Shocking!
Honestly, saying "to hell with it" and doing those above things can be a net win for all of us, so maybe a lot of flyertalkers should just spend the year trying out some independent hotels, or even better, simply booking the most awesome deal in the area regardless of brand (priceline anyone?).
The savings would be far greater than blindly spending close to 50 grand at the same chain, competition be damned, to get refunded a few measly nights at (what starwood decides is) a cat 7 property. Bank the huge savings, consider those your "points" and book another great deal for your vacation.
I am starting to think that anyone demanding "value" from loyalty programs is really just spending more money than someone who is spending their money on good deals. Yes, they get some room upgrades and warm and fuzzy status, but they've certainly spent more. These programs exist to increase revenue, after all.
A first rule of business in most industries is not to ever take features away from customers if you want them coming back. Under-promise and over-deliver on the experience. The hotel chains all of a sudden seem to have forgotten this. Thank the airlines I guess.
Yes, I know that this analysis ignores the fact that lots of people are earning their points on their company's dime. But devaluing points still affects the loyalty of these customers.
Honestly, saying "to hell with it" and doing those above things can be a net win for all of us, so maybe a lot of flyertalkers should just spend the year trying out some independent hotels, or even better, simply booking the most awesome deal in the area regardless of brand (priceline anyone?).
The savings would be far greater than blindly spending close to 50 grand at the same chain, competition be damned, to get refunded a few measly nights at (what starwood decides is) a cat 7 property. Bank the huge savings, consider those your "points" and book another great deal for your vacation.
I am starting to think that anyone demanding "value" from loyalty programs is really just spending more money than someone who is spending their money on good deals. Yes, they get some room upgrades and warm and fuzzy status, but they've certainly spent more. These programs exist to increase revenue, after all.
A first rule of business in most industries is not to ever take features away from customers if you want them coming back. Under-promise and over-deliver on the experience. The hotel chains all of a sudden seem to have forgotten this. Thank the airlines I guess.
Yes, I know that this analysis ignores the fact that lots of people are earning their points on their company's dime. But devaluing points still affects the loyalty of these customers.
There are maybe several hundred intensely loyal members of hotel programs who regularly post here and elsewhere who won't consider other programs or "shopping around" unless something drastic happens with their preferred program.
However there are several hundred million others who don't closely follow loyalty programs or could care less about them. One would think a company would offer the best program possible to attract new members and then maintain the features and value to retain them.
Instead with the annual devaluations at SPG and other chains even more people will probably just lose interest. Which might not be a bad thing, eventually companies may decide it is beneficial to start adding value back again to the programs to gain new members and bring back ones they had lost.
#156
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: AMEX Plat, AAdvantage Gold, UA, SPG Gold, HHonors Gold
Posts: 963
#157
Join Date: Aug 2008
Programs: SKF, ROP, SPG, SL Golden Circle, Hyatt Gold Passport, Marriot
Posts: 464
Le Meridien Jakarta does not deserve to be placed in Cat 4. It had gone up from cat 1 to cat 4 now.
#158
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NAPA
Programs: MARRIOTT LIFETIME TITANIUM ELITE, HYATT LIFETIME GLOBALIST, UAL SILVER, AA EXECUTIVE PLATINUM
Posts: 476
#159
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR/SPG LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus
Posts: 31,008
I never said it was "a favor here". I said it was " less painful, relatively" to the "devestation" of the other program actions.
Making up data and making up statements I never made - I don't engage in those conversations, so I'll stop there and let the numbers speak for themselves.
#160
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR/SPG LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus
Posts: 31,008
But my experience over the last several years tells me this isn't the case. I just checked for my current project location, where I've been for the last 6 months. The nearest Hyatt is 59.5 miles away.
#161
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: India
Programs: Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, IHG Plat, HH Gold, Trident Plat, DL Diamond, AI Maharajah
Posts: 29,678
for example, the properties that most fit my travel pattern are taj....but they are very limited & so will the number of people be who will truly benefit from their program....
#162
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: coastal Croatia
Programs: BAEC Gold, M&M Senator
Posts: 2,181
But I do agree with your overall inflation rate. One night at each hotel under the old system vs one night at each hotel under the new system (averaging high and low season rates) is exactly 4.7%. I didn't see where you explained the methodology for this (I probably just missed it) but I think it's the fairest way to do the numbers to figure out real (total program) inflation. I don't suppose you ran similar numbers for Hilton, Marriott and IHG?
Last edited by eefor jfp; Feb 22, 2013 at 10:13 am Reason: added second paragraph
#163
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Up in the air
Programs: SPG Plat, HH Diamond, Marriott Silver, Taj IC Silver, *Gold, OW Ruby, 9W Gold, IT Gold
Posts: 110
What the hotels are seemingly failing to realize is the biggest competition is, to put bluntly, "just booking for the best deals". As these loyalty programs get devalued, that's what's going to happen. Loyalty programs exist to keep rates high by discouraging "shopping around" and resulting increased competition and price pressure. And harming these programs will bring more people to 3rd party sites, boutique hotels, cashback/retail rewards credit cards, and up and coming programs like Club Carlson that have actually improved their redemptions year over year. Shocking!
Honestly, saying "to hell with it" and doing those above things can be a net win for all of us, so maybe a lot of flyertalkers should just spend the year trying out some independent hotels, or even better, simply booking the most awesome deal in the area regardless of brand (priceline anyone?).
The savings would be far greater than blindly spending close to 50 grand at the same chain, competition be damned, to get refunded a few measly nights at (what starwood decides is) a cat 7 property. Bank the huge savings, consider those your "points" and book another great deal for your vacation.
I am starting to think that anyone demanding "value" from loyalty programs is really just spending more money than someone who is spending their money on good deals. Yes, they get some room upgrades and warm and fuzzy status, but they've certainly spent more. These programs exist to increase revenue, after all.
A first rule of business in most industries is not to ever take features away from customers if you want them coming back. Under-promise and over-deliver on the experience. The hotel chains all of a sudden seem to have forgotten this. Thank the airlines I guess.
Yes, I know that this analysis ignores the fact that lots of people are earning their points on their company's dime. But devaluing points still affects the loyalty of these customers.
Honestly, saying "to hell with it" and doing those above things can be a net win for all of us, so maybe a lot of flyertalkers should just spend the year trying out some independent hotels, or even better, simply booking the most awesome deal in the area regardless of brand (priceline anyone?).
The savings would be far greater than blindly spending close to 50 grand at the same chain, competition be damned, to get refunded a few measly nights at (what starwood decides is) a cat 7 property. Bank the huge savings, consider those your "points" and book another great deal for your vacation.
I am starting to think that anyone demanding "value" from loyalty programs is really just spending more money than someone who is spending their money on good deals. Yes, they get some room upgrades and warm and fuzzy status, but they've certainly spent more. These programs exist to increase revenue, after all.
A first rule of business in most industries is not to ever take features away from customers if you want them coming back. Under-promise and over-deliver on the experience. The hotel chains all of a sudden seem to have forgotten this. Thank the airlines I guess.
Yes, I know that this analysis ignores the fact that lots of people are earning their points on their company's dime. But devaluing points still affects the loyalty of these customers.
Even though I earn these points on my company's dime, the damn complexity in deciding which chain to bank points on (quarter-to-quarter) is just not justified by the reward anymore, it seems. Of course, the fact that I can find pretty good deals for my vacations in exactly these hotels through a 3rd party site only adds to my level of disengagement.
There as a point of time when I was super loyal to SPG (due to rewards, recognition etc.) and went out of my way to stay at SPG properties when traveling for work. Now I'm just starting to get indifferent about all of this, and from your post I can see that I'm not alone.
#164
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: From: PWM
Programs: United GS, Fairmont Platinum,SPG LTPlat, Hilton Diamond, MarriottGold..like the rest of the world
Posts: 4,401
Marriott isn't a good solution for me for a number of personal reasons, not the least of which is that I dislike their loyalty program, but on a global scale, I'm in a significant minority with that opinion.
But, even the strongest cynic would have to agree that Marriott's total offering fits most any bill -- whether one chooses to stay there or not.
#165
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DL: Silver; AA: EX PLAT; UA: Silver; HY: DIA; HH: DIA; MR: TIT
Posts: 1,708
Another huge devaluation. Big surprise. And of course, "a select number of additional hotels may be added to the list prior to March 5th."
Sure these changes might be less terrible overall than Marriott and Hilton and this might be "good" to some of the few people who regularly post here. But a lot of non FT people who still care about loyalty programs do not accumulate a huge number of points and are happy to stay in Cat. 2 or 3 properties on vacation. A cat. 2 to 3 change is a 133% weekend/75% weekday increase and cat. 3 to 4 is a 43% increase, a huge devaluation by any measure. And there are 170 increases to cat. 2 and 3 hotels with only 23 decreases!
This is a good time to consider joining the 99% of the population who could care less about reward programs, and to look at priceline, hotwire, biddingfortravel.com, betterbidding.com, etc. before booking on a hotel website and use the accumulated savings to occasionally pay for a suite. Again this is an important lesson to use the best cash back credit card you can find instead of continuing to waste money on loyalty credit cards where the points/miles are severely devalued every year. Inflation remains under 2% annually so it is hard to justify continuing to try to earn "rewards" that can be devalued 50% to over 100% each year.
Sure these changes might be less terrible overall than Marriott and Hilton and this might be "good" to some of the few people who regularly post here. But a lot of non FT people who still care about loyalty programs do not accumulate a huge number of points and are happy to stay in Cat. 2 or 3 properties on vacation. A cat. 2 to 3 change is a 133% weekend/75% weekday increase and cat. 3 to 4 is a 43% increase, a huge devaluation by any measure. And there are 170 increases to cat. 2 and 3 hotels with only 23 decreases!
This is a good time to consider joining the 99% of the population who could care less about reward programs, and to look at priceline, hotwire, biddingfortravel.com, betterbidding.com, etc. before booking on a hotel website and use the accumulated savings to occasionally pay for a suite. Again this is an important lesson to use the best cash back credit card you can find instead of continuing to waste money on loyalty credit cards where the points/miles are severely devalued every year. Inflation remains under 2% annually so it is hard to justify continuing to try to earn "rewards" that can be devalued 50% to over 100% each year.