Official 2013 Category Changes - effective 5 March 2013
Feb 21, 2013, 6:15 am
#136
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: AMEX Plat, AAdvantage Gold, UA, SPG Gold, HHonors Gold
Posts: 963
I don't think anyone is celebrating devaluation but many FT'ers redeem at the higher end properties and SPG's devaluation happened at the mid category level. SPG also benefitted from announcing after IHG gave us a punch to the gut, then Marriott kicked us in the teeth hard enough to knock a few out, and then that was followed by a knock-out roundhouse from Hilton.
So are all these loyalty program changes significant devaluations? Yes.
Is SPG the best of the bad and ugly - yes (depending on where you find redemption values).
Lurker tell your cronies reading the thread not to go patting themselves on the back we're all still bitter at the continued showing that loyal customers are taking it on the chin.
Anyone who's watched the news or knows travel industry knows we've been hearing for a good 6 months how hotels are going to go the way of airlines with added hidden fees, and additional surcharges (and probably crappier service - and if you stay at any US based Sheratons just go into the majority of their club lounges and you tend to get a first hand look at how much they skimp and couldn't care less about providing quality service).
So basically the travel industry continues to hammer frequent travelers in "anticipation" of a better travel economy. SPG did better then the rest of the beatings from the hotel loyalty programs so sadly the "celebration" on this thread means we've reached such a sad state of devaluation we're now happy when we don't get roundhouse kicks to the head and instead only get a punch from SPG that knocks some wind out for a few minutes...
I'm sure the bean counters are sitting next to Lurker saying "see guys told ya we could pull this off and these suckers would still be happy."
So are all these loyalty program changes significant devaluations? Yes.
Is SPG the best of the bad and ugly - yes (depending on where you find redemption values).
Lurker tell your cronies reading the thread not to go patting themselves on the back we're all still bitter at the continued showing that loyal customers are taking it on the chin.
Anyone who's watched the news or knows travel industry knows we've been hearing for a good 6 months how hotels are going to go the way of airlines with added hidden fees, and additional surcharges (and probably crappier service - and if you stay at any US based Sheratons just go into the majority of their club lounges and you tend to get a first hand look at how much they skimp and couldn't care less about providing quality service).
So basically the travel industry continues to hammer frequent travelers in "anticipation" of a better travel economy. SPG did better then the rest of the beatings from the hotel loyalty programs so sadly the "celebration" on this thread means we've reached such a sad state of devaluation we're now happy when we don't get roundhouse kicks to the head and instead only get a punch from SPG that knocks some wind out for a few minutes...
I'm sure the bean counters are sitting next to Lurker saying "see guys told ya we could pull this off and these suckers would still be happy."
I think its time to move all spending onto Cashback cards and start staying at boutique hotels again. Loyalty is a two way street.
Feb 21, 2013, 6:38 am
#137
Join Date: Jan 2008
Programs: Delta-Platinum, Starwood-Platinum
Posts: 121
Feb 21, 2013, 6:40 am
#138
Join Date: May 2009
Location: MSP
Programs: Promus Preferred, ITT Sheraton Club
Posts: 674
This x1000.
Feb 21, 2013, 9:27 am
#139
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 523
Sheraton Four Point Lexington, it went up from 1 to 2, it should have gone from 1 to 0.5. Worst hotel in the world.
Feb 21, 2013, 11:29 am
#140
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR/SPG LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus
Posts: 31,010
I'm surprised that the Beaver Creek Westin is dropping from Cat 6 to Cat 5. I'm holding a MLK week reservation there right now, and the current non-refundable rate is $869/night. I gladly booked at 17K (20K/nt, 1 free), and will be even more than happy to rebook at under 14K.
The Hawaii increases do kind if s@ck - good thing I'm already holding Princeville STR, Princeville Westin, Kaanapali Villas and Sheraton reservations for this summer.
Anyone have the total count of properties by level? I'd like to do the same aggregate calculation that I did with MR and HH. Frankly, cherry picking three properties, twisting them into 100% increases, and using that to illustrate how horrible these increases are is disingenuous.
The Hawaii increases do kind if s@ck - good thing I'm already holding Princeville STR, Princeville Westin, Kaanapali Villas and Sheraton reservations for this summer.
Anyone have the total count of properties by level? I'd like to do the same aggregate calculation that I did with MR and HH. Frankly, cherry picking three properties, twisting them into 100% increases, and using that to illustrate how horrible these increases are is disingenuous.
Feb 21, 2013, 11:30 am
#141
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR/SPG LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus
Posts: 31,010
Exactly like it.
Feb 21, 2013, 11:52 am
#142
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR/SPG LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus
Posts: 31,010
I found/counted them, and can update my spreadsheet when I have time.
Without knowing the redemption figures by properties, I've simplified the analysis by determining the number of points it would take to redeem one night at every property in the system, at the new categories and the old categories, to get a feel for overall system increases.
MR: 9.6%
HH: 15% (est - still looking for detailed numbers)
SPG: 4.7%
Without knowing the redemption figures by properties, I've simplified the analysis by determining the number of points it would take to redeem one night at every property in the system, at the new categories and the old categories, to get a feel for overall system increases.
MR: 9.6%
HH: 15% (est - still looking for detailed numbers)
SPG: 4.7%
Last edited by CPRich; Feb 21, 2013 at 12:06 pm
Feb 21, 2013, 12:52 pm
#143
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 537
I found/counted them, and can update my spreadsheet when I have time.
Without knowing the redemption figures by properties, I've simplified the analysis by determining the number of points it would take to redeem one night at every property in the system, at the new categories and the old categories, to get a feel for overall system increases.
MR: 9.6%
HH: 15% (est - still looking for detailed numbers)
SPG: 4.7%
Without knowing the redemption figures by properties, I've simplified the analysis by determining the number of points it would take to redeem one night at every property in the system, at the new categories and the old categories, to get a feel for overall system increases.
MR: 9.6%
HH: 15% (est - still looking for detailed numbers)
SPG: 4.7%
Feb 21, 2013, 2:49 pm
#144
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: YYZ
Programs: Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, AC Elite, Airmiles Gold, Hertz Gold Plus Rewards
Posts: 785
This is absolutely true. The c and p increase combined with a cat increase is deadly. I hope no one was planning on going to Fiji :
Sheraton Denarau Villas
ASIA/PACIFIC
Fiji
SHERATON
4 OLD
6 NEW
This is REALLY painful for both point redemptions and c and p after March 5.
Now- 10k points or 4k and $60
March 5 - 20-25k points or 10k and $180!!!!!!!!
That is a HUGE devaluation at that property. It sounds like the Taj Mahal.
Sheraton Denarau Villas
ASIA/PACIFIC
Fiji
SHERATON
4 OLD
6 NEW
This is REALLY painful for both point redemptions and c and p after March 5.
Now- 10k points or 4k and $60
March 5 - 20-25k points or 10k and $180!!!!!!!!
That is a HUGE devaluation at that property. It sounds like the Taj Mahal.
Feb 21, 2013, 5:29 pm
#145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: coastal Croatia
Programs: BAEC Gold, M&M Senator
Posts: 2,181
Agree that this is a pretty serious devaluation, especially when you add in the C&P mess from last month. The only thing that "saves" it is how bad the IHG, Marriott and Hilton changes were.
The only major program that didn't have a devaluation this year was Hyatt. Only 17 properties changed category; for every up there was a corresponding down, and the net effect was actually a decrease. Too bad they're not everywhere you want to go.
The only major program that didn't have a devaluation this year was Hyatt. Only 17 properties changed category; for every up there was a corresponding down, and the net effect was actually a decrease. Too bad they're not everywhere you want to go.
Feb 21, 2013, 7:15 pm
#146
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: AMEX Plat, AAdvantage Gold, UA, SPG Gold, HHonors Gold
Posts: 963
Why I am annoyed, is that its the Cat 6's that I target as my aspirational trips; so when they bump from 20K to 30k a night that is a 50% increase just the same as Hilton (worse actually..) and 5-6 isn't much better.
I understand we are supposed to believe in 'inflation' (though there is no real proof of this concept) but telling me that there are more points out there from Credit Cards means they have to raise the prices is BS.
You sell me the credit card (with an annual fee) to get the points at the price that is shown.
I focus my travel AND my credit card spend on the Loyal brand... and what - you raise the price of my next vacation by 50%, and I'm supposed to be happy because at least it wasn't as bad as Hilton raising the price by 50%...
I understand we are supposed to believe in 'inflation' (though there is no real proof of this concept) but telling me that there are more points out there from Credit Cards means they have to raise the prices is BS.
You sell me the credit card (with an annual fee) to get the points at the price that is shown.
I focus my travel AND my credit card spend on the Loyal brand... and what - you raise the price of my next vacation by 50%, and I'm supposed to be happy because at least it wasn't as bad as Hilton raising the price by 50%...
Feb 21, 2013, 7:42 pm
#147
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR/SPG LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus
Posts: 31,010
Feb 21, 2013, 7:50 pm
#148
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR/SPG LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus
Posts: 31,010
You don't believe in the concept of inflation?
Feb 21, 2013, 8:35 pm
#149
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: AMEX Plat, AAdvantage Gold, UA, SPG Gold, HHonors Gold
Posts: 963
And lets be honest, out of those that went down, how many are great hotels, vs those that went up? Do you really think they did you a favor here?
Feb 21, 2013, 10:05 pm
#150
Join Date: Nov 2007
Programs: Marriott Bonvoy Platinum, Hilton Honors Diamond, Delta Gold
Posts: 4,351