Medved

Can we get your sources -- hundreds vs hundreds of million?? Where did you get all this?
IMO, loyalty programs were originally designed for frequent travellers, mostly of them business. Yes, I know there is a thread here where people talk about qualifying for Plat on their own dime. Statistically, this is a tiny minority. Private travellers cannot compete with the purchasing might of the corporations. Plus, travel is tax deductible expense for businesses. Travel is necessary evil. Though we are mindful about spending, we will not hop to hotwire looking for deals. Criteria is convinience, quality, location, sometimes a chain/hotel may or not be approved by the company. My company will not pay for a suite or business class no matter what. So, I need my upgrades when travel on business. While I make a reasonbale effort to get a better rate, I'd like my points too. With all promos, AMEX and such I accumulate enough points to pay for 3-4 weeks a year at SPG props. I don't see how a prop in Brooklyn going from 3 to 4 or whatever may affect my vacation plans. I am not happy seeing props in Venice or Hawaii going 5 to 6 or 6 to 7 though. But there is always something out there for me to spend my points!

Keyser

not quite sure what you are disagreeing with here....we were discussing hyatt, not marriott....

trog

Can we get your source where only a tiny minority of people qualify for Plat on their own dime?

I said that there are maybe several hundred intensely loyal members of hotel programs who regularly post here and elsewhere who won't consider other programs or "shopping around" unless something drastic happens with their preferred program. This wouldn't be hard to approximate by looking at the major threads of the leading travel reward sites since a regular poster would most likely appear in at least one of the major threads.

Take this thread for example, there are 166 posts to date. The SPG thread about the C&P devaluation started over a month ago has 203 posts. The Marriott devaluation thread started almost two weeks ago has 356 posts.

Now how many individual posters are there who are not official hotel reps? I could count later but I have seen a fair number of multiple posts from single individuals, including a few from myself who almost never posts. Then of these individual posters, how many are intensely loyal to one program and won't consider "shopping around"? Again I could count later, but I would bet no more than 50 individual persons across these three threads fit that category.

Now how many persons don't closely follow loyalty programs or care less about them? There were almost 238 million adults in the United States alone at the end of 2011, and most adults in the US are potential customers of the major hotel chains. In the world there are more than 4 billion adults. Of course not all of these are potential customers of hotels, but it is safe to say that there are at least hundreds of millions of persons who currently don't closely follow loyalty programs or could care less.

Instead of hotels trying to gain more loyal customers it would seem that with all of the devaluations there will be even more persons not loyal to a single chain or who don't care about loyalty programs at all anymore.

beachfan

I see a silver lining to this devaluation. According to many on this thread, there will be less platinums. Making it better for those who stay. I still see SPG as the best program. I can see some feeling Hyatt is better. Those that believe Marriott or Priceline is the way to go, I'm happy to wish you good luck.

Keyser

there is no data to support this argument....i really don't think the number of plats will change much....

beachfan

The only stat is the number of folks saying they are thinking if changing on this thread. Sorry if my tongue want visibly in my cheek.

dmw144

Irrespective of what the other chains have done, combined with the cash/points devaluation a few weeks ago this is a massive devaluation. Just because it comes after Hiltion's devaluation and seems comparatively less harsh does not make it any less a massive devaluation. I suspect that many people will seriously consider boutique hotels and aggragators like priceline as a result of this round of devaluations.

PC were roundly (and rightly) criticised for their recent devaluation where the number of properties going up was similar to the number of properties going down. Here we have a situation where 80% of the changes were category increases and the remaining 20% were category decreases.

It is just a cash grab by Starwood.

schley

Agreed, with award stays counting toward plat status and the CC giving 2 stays/5 nights as well as up to 3 rooms counting towards status, I don't see the ranks shrinking. I see them growing slightly. But I have no data to support that either, this is FT who needs data right?

etsmyers

I agree. My daughter goes to Stevenson and works at TTC. When there is weather I always book her there. Great property!

Medved

Your sources first -- you are throwing that "hundred of millions" around. Seriously, go and search the thread" "pay for plat yourself" or something.

These are unfounded assumptions. Your assumption is that frequent traveller would contribute to reward sites. Wrong. Personally, I didn't know anything about FT or others until a couple years ago. I've a frequent traveller since early 90s. I personally know about 30 Plats/Golds, etc. and I am the only one who contributes. They are all business travellers from various companies. Yes, they may consider another chain. But which one you suggest? Hyatt? Small coverage... Others -- according to this thread they are significantly worse now after devaluation. Shopping around to lose their points altogether?[/QUOTE]

You need to check how many of that number travel. Travel patterns for most of 4 billion people are very different from the US (even where majority of population doesn't travel the loyalty programs care about). Many don't travel at all: $$, health, time, lack of infrastructure for cheap travel, etc). Lots just drive to cottages, stay with friends/relatives, B&B, motels, non-chain hotels, timeshare, you name it).

Once again, the purpose of loyalty programs is to attract and retain frequent (ergo, business) travellers. A definition of a FT could vary. IMHO, at least someone who travels every month for a week on average and spends at least $20K-$30K a year. Also, this cannot be discretional. This is core business for loyalty programs which is easy to plan.

TravelinSperry

Darn, that aLoft Brooklyn was my secret stay too. Now all the NYC properties are equal again. Back to NYC hotels for me I guess. Silly move, they should've went to 4. They won't be able to justify the same redemption as NYC properties.

At least the FourPoints Queens is only Cat 4. That at least creates a decision point for them vs the city hotels.

Andyman61

Accrued Points of members are a financial liability for Starwood. When they started the program in the late 90's, there was no AMEX, there were only about 600 properties, and it was work to make Plat depending on where you traveled. Enter the era of diminished returns- AMEX brought in more people, Starwood bought/added more properties, and voila, about 10 years ago there was a level 6.

Then, too many people were using those top tier properties and about 5 years ago, Shazaam!, there's a level 7.

After making it easy to become Platinum, last year the braintrust at SPG diluted the field by downgrading the Platinum level by adding tiers to this category.

So- In order for the financial liability to be reduced as quick as possible, why not raise the point level for properties? What are we going to do? Airlines have done it, why not hotels?

Sadly, Starwood has chosen to chase the top 2%, which is fine for them. For me- it's an insult. For 14 years I've stayed consistently loyal, only to watch them make it harder each year. The former upgrades have been reduced to bottles of water. Excuses fly from the mouths of Front Desk clerks when previously a "what can I do to make it better" comment would come out.

Many of these properties, unless they have been significantly upgraded with new beds, carpet, paint, etc. are the same ol', same ol'.

I stay with Starwood because it's like a long marriage. It was good at first but after each year, I wonder, "What the *%&& was I thinking?".

Starwood- you're off your game. Get your original creators back and rediscover your mojo.

Andyman61

been there- dive.

Flews

I find it highly amusing how some posters seem to think they know how to run the hotel business better than *wood does; some even making dire predictions as to how changes like these are going to drive away customers in droves.

The facts suggest these posters are full of it:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9160FF20130207

Cheers,

tattikat2

Hello,
Have any further ups or downs to the category change list been disclosed since the list was first published?

And if not, will all changes in category be done by March 5th.

Thanks for any replies^