Official 2013 Category Changes - effective 5 March 2013
Feb 21, 2013, 12:31 am
#121
Join Date: May 2012
Programs: SPG Plat
Posts: 792
The W Taipei moving from 12,000 points to 20,000 points is a real killer.... Don't see why they are one category above the rest (Sheraton, Westin, LM) when their rates are similar (and sometimes lower)?
Feb 21, 2013, 12:42 am
#122
Join Date: May 2012
Programs: SPG Plat
Posts: 792
and the LM Jakarta as a Cat 4? That place is a dump... It should be Cat 2 if anything...
Feb 21, 2013, 12:48 am
#123
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: India
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Feb 21, 2013, 12:52 am
#124
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: CGK
Programs: Starwood PLATINUM, BA GOLD, KrisFlyer Blue, GFF Silver, BATS After Work Club, Emirates Silver
Posts: 391
However it does have a good location and Jakarta is booming already a few years now, so they don't really need to try too hard anymore, compared to back in 2007/8.
Feb 21, 2013, 12:55 am
#125
Join Date: May 2012
Programs: SPG Plat
Posts: 792
Calling it a dump is a bit harsh, but every year they downgrade their service offering, don't do any room/plumbing renovations, just make cosmetic changes to the lobby area. EG: downgraded band in tiga puluh to cheap local band. downgraded quality of slippers. downgraded quality of food in lounge etc.
However it does have a good location and Jakarta is booming already a few years now, so they don't really need to try too hard anymore, compared to back in 2007/8.
However it does have a good location and Jakarta is booming already a few years now, so they don't really need to try too hard anymore, compared to back in 2007/8.
Feb 21, 2013, 12:58 am
#126
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Feb 21, 2013, 1:37 am
#127
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MKE
Programs: SPG-Plat, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Plat, IHG-Plat
Posts: 86
Another huge devaluation. Big surprise. And of course, "a select number of additional hotels may be added to the list prior to March 5th."
Sure these changes might be less terrible overall than Marriott and Hilton and this might be "good" to some of the few people who regularly post here. But a lot of non FT people who still care about loyalty programs do not accumulate a huge number of points and are happy to stay in Cat. 2 or 3 properties on vacation. A cat. 2 to 3 change is a 133% weekend/75% weekday increase and cat. 3 to 4 is a 43% increase, a huge devaluation by any measure. And there are 170 increases to cat. 2 and 3 hotels with only 23 decreases!
This is a good time to consider joining the 99% of the population who could care less about reward programs, and to look at priceline, hotwire, biddingfortravel.com, betterbidding.com, etc. before booking on a hotel website and use the accumulated savings to occasionally pay for a suite. Again this is an important lesson to use the best cash back credit card you can find instead of continuing to waste money on loyalty credit cards where the points/miles are severely devalued every year. Inflation remains under 2% annually so it is hard to justify continuing to try to earn "rewards" that can be devalued 50% to over 100% each year.
Sure these changes might be less terrible overall than Marriott and Hilton and this might be "good" to some of the few people who regularly post here. But a lot of non FT people who still care about loyalty programs do not accumulate a huge number of points and are happy to stay in Cat. 2 or 3 properties on vacation. A cat. 2 to 3 change is a 133% weekend/75% weekday increase and cat. 3 to 4 is a 43% increase, a huge devaluation by any measure. And there are 170 increases to cat. 2 and 3 hotels with only 23 decreases!
This is a good time to consider joining the 99% of the population who could care less about reward programs, and to look at priceline, hotwire, biddingfortravel.com, betterbidding.com, etc. before booking on a hotel website and use the accumulated savings to occasionally pay for a suite. Again this is an important lesson to use the best cash back credit card you can find instead of continuing to waste money on loyalty credit cards where the points/miles are severely devalued every year. Inflation remains under 2% annually so it is hard to justify continuing to try to earn "rewards" that can be devalued 50% to over 100% each year.
Feb 21, 2013, 2:21 am
#128
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: HEL
Programs: SPG LTP, hotels, OWE, STE+, *G, Octopus
Posts: 5,789
Istanbul
W Istanbul went down one category, while Marriott Istanbul properties all went up. Perhaps because of the discussion on FT? 
Feb 21, 2013, 2:24 am
#129
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: UA-1K MM, AA-Gold, DL-Silver, AS-MVP
Posts: 2,509
I agree. Stayed there in 2009 and the $100/night I paid I think it's worthy of Cat 2. 'Good location' is debatable since it's taxi+traffic jam every where in Jakarta; tho this hotel is a few min walk to the BRT bus stop.
Feb 21, 2013, 4:27 am
#130
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: All over
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This is undoubtedly true. The combined effect of C&P changes and category adjustment is painful. In some cases there's a 100% increase, on par with the worst excesses of the HH devaluation:
W Taipei: Today 4.8k+$90, Mar5: 10k+$180
Sheraton Hiroshima: Today 4k+$60, Mar5: 6k+$110
LM Khao Lak: Today 2.8k+$45, Mar5: 5k+$75.
W Taipei: Today 4.8k+$90, Mar5: 10k+$180
Sheraton Hiroshima: Today 4k+$60, Mar5: 6k+$110
LM Khao Lak: Today 2.8k+$45, Mar5: 5k+$75.
C+P was so hit or miss among the SPG properties, that although the change was painful, I (and others) am willing to pony up the extra points and cash if more properties (and rooms) would be made available. I agree that SPG changes are a major devaluation, but the program is still one of the better hotel programs as compared to the other programs (after the 2013 changes).
This may be a big IF. I realize that some posters have expressed the hope that the increased C&P rates will have the effect of enticing hotels to open up more availability, but in reality this may or may not happen. Note that the changes are not tied to a requirement to open up additional C&P availability, so very likely some hotels will increase availability, while others will not. My bet is that we will see less of an improvement than many expect (especially at properties that have traditionally been problematic).
Even this relatively small change in properties moving up in categories can have quite an impact on number of points required for a "free" night:
- Category 1 to 2 rise of 33% (weekends 50%)
- Category 2 to 3 rise of 75% (weekends 133%)
- Category 3 to 4 rise of 42%
- Category 4 to 5 rise of 20% low season to 60% in high season
- Category 5 to 6 rise of 67% low season to 56% in high season
- Category 6 to 7 rise of 50% low season to 40% in high season
Feb 21, 2013, 4:50 am
#131
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca., USA
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat; Bonvoy Titanium Lifetime Elite;Hyatt Globalist; HHonors Diamond; United Silver
Posts: 8,318
Sorry, don't buy the hand wringing over cat 1 to cat 2 changes. They are still dirt cheap.
Feb 21, 2013, 5:13 am
#132
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: CHA/TYS
Programs: The Mac Daddy of Heimlich County (and low-ball status)
Posts: 2,868
It's like when your spouse send you a text that says "Will you be home tonight? We need to talk", and it turns out to be something trivial.
The devastation of three recently announced hotel chain changes makes these changes much less painful, relatively.
I actually have reservations, or plans for reservations, at three of the properties that are decreasing. I save my points for family vacation properties, so the large number of 2/3/4 increases are pretty irrelevant to me. And as noted above, Cat 5 and 6, 12 up, 22 down (assuming this is correct) is much more relevant to me, and quite a positive.
The devastation of three recently announced hotel chain changes makes these changes much less painful, relatively.
I actually have reservations, or plans for reservations, at three of the properties that are decreasing. I save my points for family vacation properties, so the large number of 2/3/4 increases are pretty irrelevant to me. And as noted above, Cat 5 and 6, 12 up, 22 down (assuming this is correct) is much more relevant to me, and quite a positive.
Feb 21, 2013, 5:15 am
#133
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: JFK, DCA, BUR, YVR
Programs: AC, AS, BA, DL, HH (D), MR (T/LTP), UA (*S), UScAAre (PLT/1,87MM), WN
Posts: 5,207
I didn't read any of the whining on this thread yet, but I did have an opportunity to look at the list. A couple of properties stuck out in my mind:
1. Element MIA going from Cat 2 to 3.
Really? This may be one of the newest Elements, but it is also the worst. Built right on top of MIA and Amtrak, there is no possible way to get a good night's rest if you have the misfortune of staying at this property. Basically, the owners cheaped out and did not install soundproofing. I'm surprised SPG didn't make a negative category, where dumpy properties pay US to stay.
2. 4PTS SFO going from Cat 2 to 3.
Bed bug central gets a bump up??? This is as laughable as the elevation of SLS Beverly Hills. Four Points SFO needs to go the way of the dinosaur.
1. Element MIA going from Cat 2 to 3.
Really? This may be one of the newest Elements, but it is also the worst. Built right on top of MIA and Amtrak, there is no possible way to get a good night's rest if you have the misfortune of staying at this property. Basically, the owners cheaped out and did not install soundproofing. I'm surprised SPG didn't make a negative category, where dumpy properties pay US to stay.
2. 4PTS SFO going from Cat 2 to 3.
Bed bug central gets a bump up??? This is as laughable as the elevation of SLS Beverly Hills.
Four Points SFO needs to go the way of the dinosaur.
Feb 21, 2013, 5:35 am
#134
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Times Square
Programs: SPG Gold, AAdvantage
Posts: 1,397
Feb 21, 2013, 5:46 am
#135
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: PWM/MHT/BOS
Programs: UA (lame duck)1K, US Plat,HHonors Diamond, PC Plat, SPG Plat, MR Platinum
Posts: 605
I don't think anyone is celebrating devaluation but many FT'ers redeem at the higher end properties and SPG's devaluation happened at the mid category level. SPG also benefitted from announcing after IHG gave us a punch to the gut, then Marriott kicked us in the teeth hard enough to knock a few out, and then that was followed by a knock-out roundhouse from Hilton.
So are all these loyalty program changes significant devaluations? Yes.
Is SPG the best of the bad and ugly - yes (depending on where you find redemption values).
Lurker tell your cronies reading the thread not to go patting themselves on the back we're all still bitter at the continued showing that loyal customers are taking it on the chin.
Anyone who's watched the news or knows travel industry knows we've been hearing for a good 6 months how hotels are going to go the way of airlines with added hidden fees, and additional surcharges (and probably crappier service - and if you stay at any US based Sheratons just go into the majority of their club lounges and you tend to get a first hand look at how much they skimp and couldn't care less about providing quality service).
So basically the travel industry continues to hammer frequent travelers in "anticipation" of a better travel economy. SPG did better then the rest of the beatings from the hotel loyalty programs so sadly the "celebration" on this thread means we've reached such a sad state of devaluation we're now happy when we don't get roundhouse kicks to the head and instead only get a punch from SPG that knocks some wind out for a few minutes...
I'm sure the bean counters are sitting next to Lurker saying "see guys told ya we could pull this off and these suckers would still be happy."
So are all these loyalty program changes significant devaluations? Yes.
Is SPG the best of the bad and ugly - yes (depending on where you find redemption values).
Lurker tell your cronies reading the thread not to go patting themselves on the back we're all still bitter at the continued showing that loyal customers are taking it on the chin.
Anyone who's watched the news or knows travel industry knows we've been hearing for a good 6 months how hotels are going to go the way of airlines with added hidden fees, and additional surcharges (and probably crappier service - and if you stay at any US based Sheratons just go into the majority of their club lounges and you tend to get a first hand look at how much they skimp and couldn't care less about providing quality service).
So basically the travel industry continues to hammer frequent travelers in "anticipation" of a better travel economy. SPG did better then the rest of the beatings from the hotel loyalty programs so sadly the "celebration" on this thread means we've reached such a sad state of devaluation we're now happy when we don't get roundhouse kicks to the head and instead only get a punch from SPG that knocks some wind out for a few minutes...
I'm sure the bean counters are sitting next to Lurker saying "see guys told ya we could pull this off and these suckers would still be happy."