Vinodavid

Hyatt is looking better and better, I hate to say it.

Keyser

i wouldn't say that given they have less than 500 properties in total....

patiolanterns

What the hotels are seemingly failing to realize is the biggest competition is, to put bluntly, "just booking for the best deals". As these loyalty programs get devalued, that's what's going to happen. Loyalty programs exist to keep rates high by discouraging "shopping around" and resulting increased competition and price pressure. And harming these programs will bring more people to 3rd party sites, boutique hotels, cashback/retail rewards credit cards, and up and coming programs like Club Carlson that have actually improved their redemptions year over year. Shocking!

Honestly, saying "to hell with it" and doing those above things can be a net win for all of us, so maybe a lot of flyertalkers should just spend the year trying out some independent hotels, or even better, simply booking the most awesome deal in the area regardless of brand (priceline anyone?).

The savings would be far greater than blindly spending close to 50 grand at the same chain, competition be damned, to get refunded a few measly nights at (what starwood decides is) a cat 7 property. Bank the huge savings, consider those your "points" and book another great deal for your vacation.

I am starting to think that anyone demanding "value" from loyalty programs is really just spending more money than someone who is spending their money on good deals. Yes, they get some room upgrades and warm and fuzzy status, but they've certainly spent more. These programs exist to increase revenue, after all.

A first rule of business in most industries is not to ever take features away from customers if you want them coming back. Under-promise and over-deliver on the experience. The hotel chains all of a sudden seem to have forgotten this. Thank the airlines I guess.

Yes, I know that this analysis ignores the fact that lots of people are earning their points on their company's dime. But devaluing points still affects the loyalty of these customers.

schley

This is a brain dump on many topics. I just want to pick one. The savvy FTer's which if anyone is posting they are savvy IMO, will maximize their return on minimize their investment. They will run the numbers and optimize their point spending. They will get the free breakfast, internet, lounge access, upgrades, etc. for nothing over their room rate. Loyalty to any program is a subjective decision for all and when you are given the benefits you expect consistently there is not much reason to look elsewhere. You spend your time trying to maximize your benefits within your loyalty program and don't spend time comparing yours to the competition. Only if your program fails to deliver or seriously devalues the points/benefits do you look elsewhere.

This is what is happening to Hilton now IMO. Some loyal Hilton customers now have a reason to look elsewhere because of the serious devaluation. In short I don't agree with your reasoning of price lining hotel stays and banking the difference and considering this your points. I get a hell of a lot of value for my points and I put a monetary value on the benefits I get for breakfast, internet, upgrades, lounge access, late check out etc. To minimize the benefits or dismiss them altogether as you have done is ignorant for almost any savvy FTer.

trog

^ +1 I think this is an excellent analysis, many people already "just book for the best deals" and more will start doing so as loyalty programs continue to be devalued. It isn't too bad possibly missing a "free" breakfast when saving a hundred or more dollars a night with priceline or similar sites. It is also nice receiving cash rewards from credit cards since money can't be drastically devalued every year.

There are maybe several hundred intensely loyal members of hotel programs who regularly post here and elsewhere who won't consider other programs or "shopping around" unless something drastic happens with their preferred program.

However there are several hundred million others who don't closely follow loyalty programs or could care less about them. One would think a company would offer the best program possible to attract new members and then maintain the features and value to retain them.

Instead with the annual devaluations at SPG and other chains even more people will probably just lose interest. Which might not be a bad thing, eventually companies may decide it is beneficial to start adding value back again to the programs to gain new members and bring back ones they had lost.

brooklynmatt

Hotels.com with 1 free night for every 10 booked, plus cashback through Bigcrumbs or Shopdiscover 4.5-5% is looking even better...

10 nights at $200 a night nets you:

1 x $200 room and $100 Cash Back

Dendrite

Le Meridien Jakarta does not deserve to be placed in Cat 4. It had gone up from cat 1 to cat 4 now.

Vinodavid

Fair enough, but if their properties fit one's travel patterns a person could do much worse.

CPRich

It's 4.7%, shown above. If you're going to deny economics, make up numbers and use <1% of the data in your analysis, then factual discussion are pointless.

As also noted above, I'm holding or was planning reservations at three that are going up and three that are going down. The Westin Avon in a tremendous property and my family loves Aruba.

I never said it was "a favor here". I said it was " less painful, relatively" to the "devestation" of the other program actions.

Making up data and making up statements I never made - I don't engage in those conversations, so I'll stop there and let the numbers speak for themselves.

CPRich

If I was comfortable Hyatt would always have properties where I travel, I would agree. The program has a very nice set of benefits, and I was treated well when I was Diamond several years ago.

But my experience over the last several years tells me this isn't the case. I just checked for my current project location, where I've been for the last 6 months. The nearest Hyatt is 59.5 miles away.

Keyser

that's true of any chain but the problem is that it won't fit the travel pattern for too many people....

for example, the properties that most fit my travel pattern are taj....but they are very limited & so will the number of people be who will truly benefit from their program....

eefor jfp

Actually, if you look at your chart, more 4's went up to 5's (18) than 5's went down to 4's (16). And more 5's went up to 6's (9) than 6's went down to 5's (7). And more 6's went up to 7's (6) than 7's went down to 6's (0). Really the only thing that is true is that more current 5's went down to 4's than went up to 6's which is a pretty meaningless statistic IMHO. So even at the high end, it wasn't "good" for anybody except Starwood. And if you look at the 4's it's even worse. 98 3's went up to 4's and 2 (TWO) 4's went down to 3's. OUCH!

But I do agree with your overall inflation rate. One night at each hotel under the old system vs one night at each hotel under the new system (averaging high and low season rates) is exactly 4.7%. I didn't see where you explained the methodology for this (I probably just missed it) but I think it's the fairest way to do the numbers to figure out real (total program) inflation. I don't suppose you ran similar numbers for Hilton, Marriott and IHG?

Bingham Boy

Could not have put it better myself - summarizes my views too.

Even though I earn these points on my company's dime, the damn complexity in deciding which chain to bank points on (quarter-to-quarter) is just not justified by the reward anymore, it seems. Of course, the fact that I can find pretty good deals for my vacations in exactly these hotels through a 3rd party site only adds to my level of disengagement.

There as a point of time when I was super loyal to SPG (due to rewards, recognition etc.) and went out of my way to stay at SPG properties when traveling for work. Now I'm just starting to get indifferent about all of this, and from your post I can see that I'm not alone.

sbtinme

I have to disagree here. I can't imagine that Marriott's portfolio wouldn't fit the pattern of 90%++++ of the folks here on FT. Marriott's brand range is substantial and runs the gamut from entry level to top end. Their product is amazingly consistent and they keep their standards high. They also have about a bazillion properties.

Marriott isn't a good solution for me for a number of personal reasons, not the least of which is that I dislike their loyalty program, but on a global scale, I'm in a significant minority with that opinion.

But, even the strongest cynic would have to agree that Marriott's total offering fits most any bill -- whether one chooses to stay there or not.

LINDEGR

Sadly, I agree 110% with all of the above. I am in burn mode for all hotel programs (except Hyatt) and then will just worry about price going fwd.