WN's new reservation system aggressively cancels duplicate bookings
Mar 25, 2017, 11:52 pm
#136
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Programs: AA, DL Gold Med , UA, AS, WN, HHonors Silver, Marriott, IHG Rewards Club, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 323
Please don't ask people not to talk to you about the COC. That it is the whole point of the "spoiled children" post.
This has always been the rule --- and it is not about duplicate or impossible ticketing, it is about those and anything else WN determines to be fraudulently booked. It has simply not been enforced. Now, it is being enforced. That is all.
As a consumer, you have two options:
> Live with it
> Jump ship
WN is betting that either #1 occurs and that the extra space freed up through less inventory spoilage results in happier customers overall or that to the extent that #2 occurs, it is minimal and made up for by more happy #1's.
We'll see. Maybe people are correct and it was a mistake and WN will run an ad campaign: "We're fine with ticketing fraud - please come back" We'll see !
This has always been the rule --- and it is not about duplicate or impossible ticketing, it is about those and anything else WN determines to be fraudulently booked. It has simply not been enforced. Now, it is being enforced. That is all.
As a consumer, you have two options:
> Live with it
> Jump ship
WN is betting that either #1 occurs and that the extra space freed up through less inventory spoilage results in happier customers overall or that to the extent that #2 occurs, it is minimal and made up for by more happy #1's.
We'll see. Maybe people are correct and it was a mistake and WN will run an ad campaign: "We're fine with ticketing fraud - please come back" We'll see !
Mar 26, 2017, 12:43 am
#137
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 12
I meant "everyday" in the sense of "I'm just a regular Joe that flies a couple times a year for a family vacation, a friend's wedding, etc."
Mar 26, 2017, 12:55 am
#138
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 12
They didn't change any rules. The rule against duplicate reservations has been there forever and exists on the other airlines as well. The only thing that is changing is that WN has new technology to catch this. It's like if the NYC subway previously would accept any coin for entry so people just used a penny to ride instead of buying a $2 token. Then they install new machines that require a $2 token to ride. Oh no now we have to pay? Horrors! 
All bookings (even the so-called "fraudulent" ones) are paid with very real $$ and very real points (not "any coin"), at the exact price Southwest *chooses* to offer them for sale (in a public marketplace called a "website") when I book them.
When I ride the subway I pay $2, I can take the 1:00 train or the 1:10 train. Sometimes my "intent" on which train to take isn't certain until the last minute. It's my choice and I don't have to worry about massive price fluctuations or change fees. I hop on the train and pay my fair share ($2).
This used to more-or-less be the case on Southwest as well. On many Amtrak regional/commuter lines, it still is the case (a ticket is good for any train within 365 days). Does Amtrak consider this "fraud" in any way??...no, of course not.
The SWA rules have changed. The CoC was always there, but never enforced. Thus the new enforcement is, in fact, a defacto rule change. Their right, and yes, maybe we were "spoiled", but it is also my right to voice concern about a change that doesn't benefit consumers or the flying public.
What's the next anti-consumer change SWA will make?...
Mar 26, 2017, 8:21 am
#139
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: RNO
Programs: AA/DL/UA
Posts: 10,775
You can split hairs and rationalize behavior all you like but it does not change the fact that duplicate reservations are not allowed. Period. End of story.
If you want a cheap fare, deal with the restrictions. If you need flexibility, you have to pay more. This has been the case for 40 years, and it's the only reason cheap fares exist. If everyone paid the same fare, fares would be higher and traffic would be lower.
Speaking of trains, one time I took NJT out of Penn Station around 5 PM but I paid less than regular commuters because NJT sold "excursion" tickets where you can leave in the afternoon rush hour if you come back the same day in the evening (lots of empty seats going that direction at that time).
If you want a cheap fare, deal with the restrictions. If you need flexibility, you have to pay more. This has been the case for 40 years, and it's the only reason cheap fares exist. If everyone paid the same fare, fares would be higher and traffic would be lower.
Speaking of trains, one time I took NJT out of Penn Station around 5 PM but I paid less than regular commuters because NJT sold "excursion" tickets where you can leave in the afternoon rush hour if you come back the same day in the evening (lots of empty seats going that direction at that time).
Mar 26, 2017, 9:46 am
#140
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,512
A-list same-day standby came late and rather grudgingly. Corporate flipped shortly after an online travel site ran a piece highlighting WN's verbatim response to a complaining A-lister:
“We regret your disappointment when you were required to pay the appropriate fare difference to fly standby on an earlier flight. Since our discounted fares are flight, date, and time specific, standby travel is not permitted; therefore, you must pay the difference between your discounted fare and our Anytime Fare if you request to fly standby. You see, the incentive to purchase full fare tickets would significantly decrease if we allowed Customers who purchased discounted reservations to travel standby on any flight with seats available without charging the applicable fare.”
Mar 26, 2017, 11:03 am
#141
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Problem is that there is no comparison. Apples-to-oranges.
No carrier allows fraudulent ticketing. That is especially true of truly impossible bookings, let alone bookings which are not likely to both be flown as ticketed.
Free SDC --- Free meaning free --- for top-level elites for ages. Only WN was quibbling with its top-level elites when there was a last-minute empty seat which is all SDC ever was.
Anyone ranting to the trade press about jumping ship from WN or how customer-unfriendly WN is, going to have to point to something other than ticketing fraud for a pointer.
No carrier allows fraudulent ticketing. That is especially true of truly impossible bookings, let alone bookings which are not likely to both be flown as ticketed.
Free SDC --- Free meaning free --- for top-level elites for ages. Only WN was quibbling with its top-level elites when there was a last-minute empty seat which is all SDC ever was.
Anyone ranting to the trade press about jumping ship from WN or how customer-unfriendly WN is, going to have to point to something other than ticketing fraud for a pointer.
Mar 26, 2017, 11:43 am
#142
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,512
"Ticketing fraud" is a pretentious caricature.
A benefit of the doubt courtesy is elsewhere found.
Quantas:
A benefit of the doubt courtesy is elsewhere found.
Quantas:
"When a duplicate booking exists a warning message is sent to the 'oldest' PNR to advise that a suspect duplicate booking exists and that action needs to be taken or risk automatic cancellation. The system will allow between three business days and five calendar days depending on the PNR type. After this period of time if there has been no reply or cancellation of either booking, then the oldest PNR is cancelled regardless of ticketing status."
Mar 27, 2017, 8:10 am
#143
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MSP
Programs: Marriott LT Titanium, UA Silver (via Marriott)
Posts: 642
If your argument has now changed to that WN should notify you before outright cancelling your duplicate/impossible booking, then I agree wholeheartedly. Enforcing the CoC is their prerogative, though, and we'll see how it goes for them.
Mar 27, 2017, 8:28 am
#144
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,512
AA allows seat holds an entire week for $11.99.
"Courtesy holds" during widespread IRROPs are..widespread. With 1 notable exception.
Mar 27, 2017, 9:33 am
#145
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicagoland, IL, USA
Programs: WN CP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,192
"Ticketing fraud" is a pretentious caricature.
A benefit of the doubt courtesy is elsewhere found.
Qantas:
"When a duplicate booking exists a warning message is sent to the 'oldest' PNR to advise that a suspect duplicate booking exists and that action needs to be taken or risk automatic cancellation. The system will allow between three business days and five calendar days depending on the PNR type. After this period of time if there has been no reply or cancellation of either booking, then the oldest PNR is cancelled regardless of ticketing status."
A benefit of the doubt courtesy is elsewhere found.
Qantas:
"When a duplicate booking exists a warning message is sent to the 'oldest' PNR to advise that a suspect duplicate booking exists and that action needs to be taken or risk automatic cancellation. The system will allow between three business days and five calendar days depending on the PNR type. After this period of time if there has been no reply or cancellation of either booking, then the oldest PNR is cancelled regardless of ticketing status."
Mar 27, 2017, 10:29 am
#146
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,512
Hard to imagine they'd provide you 3-5 days to cancel if there was no refund opportunity. Otherwise, why would you bother? The direct answer is I have absolutely no idea.
Mar 27, 2017, 11:10 am
#147
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
I take exception ot calling these types of bookings "fraudulent", while Southwest does prohibit "speculative" bookings and tickets on the same day, those bookig are generally not "fraudulent" in the sense they are not meant to defraud Southwest, in fact if the booking are not canceled by the traveler, Southwest would happily pocket the fare. .
Mar 27, 2017, 11:26 am
#148
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
The bookings would not be prohibited if WN made money off them. Of that you may be assured. There is no rational reason not to cancel one of the bookings and thus the only passenger who does not cancel one of the two bookings is either forgetful or "not smart."
Mar 27, 2017, 11:40 am
#149
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MSP
Programs: Marriott LT Titanium, UA Silver (via Marriott)
Posts: 642
Bringing up IRROPs is conflating the issue entirely. I think most people (including myself) agree with you that WN's IRROPs handling leaves a lot to be desired, including the (in)ability to get protected on another flight. WN is very substandard compared to the legacy carriers in that regard.