Qantas "challenge" to reinstate expired points
Sep 20, 2017, 12:52 am
#31
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2008
Programs: Emirates Skywards, Delta Skymiles, Continental Onepass, etc.
Posts: 114
The best way I know to almost guarantee points posting within 24 hours is with an Epiqure purchase as per post #4 .
Can you have some wine delivered to someone in Oz?
Can you have some wine delivered to someone in Oz?
--ATD
Oct 12, 2017, 2:09 am
#32
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2
Any luck
I just unknowingly lost 234,017 points in June 30th without proper warning, paying 2 x ANZ Frequent flyer credit cards fees since 2002-2015 and spending 100;s of thousands of dollars to accrue these points, I'm not happy. How I found out they had expired, was my friends father died 2nd August, so I was going to use points to fly to funeral on 7th August, that's when I seen it was zero, so after I contacted them, that's when they said about inactivity in 18 months, that I didn't know.
So I contacted ACCC, and they said before they take on my case to contact ACA "Airline Customer Advocate" so I did on 3rd August, haven't heard anything, so not holding my breath, as apparently this department is funded by the Airlines, so could be biased. In the meantime I've been going back and forth with QFF department, me arguing that they only sent me a monthly Newsletter and in the smallest black deceiving writing in newsletter when points expire, no one would see this, only if they was looking for it, as everything else in newsletter is Big Bold bright colours/pictures that distracts you away of the most important information, is points, they should of sent a proper expiry email, stating in subject line, warning of expiry, but no, they hide it in newsletter, what a joke. We'll I'm going to give them a long hard time, as they keep changing the story, every different person that responses to my emails, as this fiasco has been going on for a month now and I'm not giving up, they also said about the points challenge, but we shouldn't have to do this, as its there deceiving points correspondence that's unacceptable that's caused a lot of members problems, they've phoned me twice this week and the incompetent person on the other end frustrated me and I hung up, as they didn't even know the points procedure. If ACA don't resolve it, I'll be contacting ACCC and see what next to do, maybe Office of Fair Trading. I got hold of apparently Alan Joyce email address and sent him a email last night on what's going on,( it didn't bounce back and I got a "Read Reply" this morning that it was read at 5.04am, so see if its ligate) and wanting to put a formal complaint against Qantas Frequent Flyer program about how deceiving this program is about points expiry correspondence and the incompetent of staff, so we'll see how I go there, If ACCC cant do anything and the last resort is I'll be contacting Channel 7 news and tell them what's happened and I'll send them my Monthly Newsletter that's has in the smallest black writing on page about expiry.
Everyone that has had the same points expiry should contact the ACCC and let them know, as If everyone does it, they will then act on our behalf, as I ask if anyone else has reported this problem and he said he hasn't heard, as I'm not giving up until I get my points back and to make sure QFF send everyone of there members a proper email stating specifically about points expiry and not hide it in newsletters so they can rip us off.
So I contacted ACCC, and they said before they take on my case to contact ACA "Airline Customer Advocate" so I did on 3rd August, haven't heard anything, so not holding my breath, as apparently this department is funded by the Airlines, so could be biased. In the meantime I've been going back and forth with QFF department, me arguing that they only sent me a monthly Newsletter and in the smallest black deceiving writing in newsletter when points expire, no one would see this, only if they was looking for it, as everything else in newsletter is Big Bold bright colours/pictures that distracts you away of the most important information, is points, they should of sent a proper expiry email, stating in subject line, warning of expiry, but no, they hide it in newsletter, what a joke. We'll I'm going to give them a long hard time, as they keep changing the story, every different person that responses to my emails, as this fiasco has been going on for a month now and I'm not giving up, they also said about the points challenge, but we shouldn't have to do this, as its there deceiving points correspondence that's unacceptable that's caused a lot of members problems, they've phoned me twice this week and the incompetent person on the other end frustrated me and I hung up, as they didn't even know the points procedure. If ACA don't resolve it, I'll be contacting ACCC and see what next to do, maybe Office of Fair Trading. I got hold of apparently Alan Joyce email address and sent him a email last night on what's going on,( it didn't bounce back and I got a "Read Reply" this morning that it was read at 5.04am, so see if its ligate) and wanting to put a formal complaint against Qantas Frequent Flyer program about how deceiving this program is about points expiry correspondence and the incompetent of staff, so we'll see how I go there, If ACCC cant do anything and the last resort is I'll be contacting Channel 7 news and tell them what's happened and I'll send them my Monthly Newsletter that's has in the smallest black writing on page about expiry.
Everyone that has had the same points expiry should contact the ACCC and let them know, as If everyone does it, they will then act on our behalf, as I ask if anyone else has reported this problem and he said he hasn't heard, as I'm not giving up until I get my points back and to make sure QFF send everyone of there members a proper email stating specifically about points expiry and not hide it in newsletters so they can rip us off.
My husband has also just realised he has lost over 130,000 QFF points and I lost 20,000, however mine only expired within the last few months so Qantas have offered me the 2500 points program, although we flew Jetstar in Feb and the points didn't appear like they should have and they wouldn't have expired.
They claim because my husbands points expired 31/10/16, he is not eligible for the 2500 points redemption program which is rubbish if you ask me. Reading other peoples blogs, apparently the 'expiring points' email is hidden within the monthly statement and NOT clear.
We also want to fight our points expiring as I also thought Woolworths were still linked and we were scanning our card.
How did you go with you pursuits, is it worth fighting as it appears alot of people have been screwed over.
Thanks, Miss Jane
Oct 13, 2017, 1:06 pm
#33
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2
Couldn't agree more
Couldn't agree more Brewy, Qantas is clearly trying hide the fact that points are expiring.
How hard would it be for them to send a seperate email with the subject line 'Points Expiring Soon'
No instead they choose to hide it in the hope that loyal customers who have kept them in business will miss it and lose their hard earned points - how's that for loyalty!!
Whoever thought this practice up should be fired but instead probably received a promotion.
I never received any emails, in fine print or not, warning me of my point expiry.
I'll be emailing Alan Joyce now, no way I'm giving up on this. Did you approach the ACCC?
How hard would it be for them to send a seperate email with the subject line 'Points Expiring Soon'
No instead they choose to hide it in the hope that loyal customers who have kept them in business will miss it and lose their hard earned points - how's that for loyalty!!
Whoever thought this practice up should be fired but instead probably received a promotion.
I never received any emails, in fine print or not, warning me of my point expiry.
I'll be emailing Alan Joyce now, no way I'm giving up on this. Did you approach the ACCC?
But QFF dont send a proper email stating in subject line or opening pages specifically about Expired points information, they hide expiry info in the newsletter in small black print, like other member's have experience and some didn't even get the newsletters leading up to expiry as well, I've read on other sites/Facebook with other QFF members getting screwed like this deceptive conduct.
Imagine if your Electricity, Rates, Registration, etc. Important payment due dates/expiry information came in smallest black print in there newsletters, most people wouldn't pay on time, so the business/company could recoup overdue payments or recoup re-registration fees, well that would be wrong, so what makes QFF exempt? When these Utilities send you info about expiry or payment, they send you in Bold information only about this important information/Date, so you cant possibility miss this important date to act apond.
I found a law against this, Its Named 'Misleading or Deceptive Conduct" under Section 18 of "Australian Consumer Law". So this quote from LawPath below is exactly what QFF are doing by hiding the most important information of "points expiry in small black print."
"Disclaimers and small print".
Where a business hides important disclaimers within small print to advertise their product or services, they may not be protected from liability by the disclaimer. If a business intentionally utilises small, unnoticeable placements for their disclaimers or buries them within the small print of their advertisement then they may be liable for misleading or deceptive conduct.
Imagine if your Electricity, Rates, Registration, etc. Important payment due dates/expiry information came in smallest black print in there newsletters, most people wouldn't pay on time, so the business/company could recoup overdue payments or recoup re-registration fees, well that would be wrong, so what makes QFF exempt? When these Utilities send you info about expiry or payment, they send you in Bold information only about this important information/Date, so you cant possibility miss this important date to act apond.
I found a law against this, Its Named 'Misleading or Deceptive Conduct" under Section 18 of "Australian Consumer Law". So this quote from LawPath below is exactly what QFF are doing by hiding the most important information of "points expiry in small black print."
"Disclaimers and small print".
Where a business hides important disclaimers within small print to advertise their product or services, they may not be protected from liability by the disclaimer. If a business intentionally utilises small, unnoticeable placements for their disclaimers or buries them within the small print of their advertisement then they may be liable for misleading or deceptive conduct.
Oct 13, 2017, 5:08 pm
#34
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,600
Originally Posted by Mozo
I never received any emails, in fine print or not, warning me of my point expiry.
Originally Posted by Mozo
I'll be emailing Alan Joyce now, no way I'm giving up on this. Did you approach the ACCC?
Oct 13, 2017, 5:34 pm
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Oct 14, 2017, 6:47 pm
#36
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 8
Hi Brewy,
My husband has also just realised he has lost over 130,000 QFF points and I lost 20,000, however mine only expired within the last few months so Qantas have offered me the 2500 points program, although we flew Jetstar in Feb and the points didn't appear like they should have and they wouldn't have expired.
They claim because my husbands points expired 31/10/16, he is not eligible for the 2500 points redemption program which is rubbish if you ask me. Reading other peoples blogs, apparently the 'expiring points' email is hidden within the monthly statement and NOT clear.
We also want to fight our points expiring as I also thought Woolworths were still linked and we were scanning our card.
How did you go with you pursuits, is it worth fighting as it appears alot of people have been screwed over.
Thanks, Miss Jane
My husband has also just realised he has lost over 130,000 QFF points and I lost 20,000, however mine only expired within the last few months so Qantas have offered me the 2500 points program, although we flew Jetstar in Feb and the points didn't appear like they should have and they wouldn't have expired.
They claim because my husbands points expired 31/10/16, he is not eligible for the 2500 points redemption program which is rubbish if you ask me. Reading other peoples blogs, apparently the 'expiring points' email is hidden within the monthly statement and NOT clear.
We also want to fight our points expiring as I also thought Woolworths were still linked and we were scanning our card.
How did you go with you pursuits, is it worth fighting as it appears alot of people have been screwed over.
Thanks, Miss Jane
Last edited by Brewy; Oct 14, 2017 at 7:34 pm Reason: My qoute didnt attach.
Oct 14, 2017, 7:14 pm
#37
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 8
Hi MOZO, I contacted ACCC first and they recorded my complaint and said if they get multiple complaints about this situation, they will act and they said contact ACA-(Airline Customer Advocate) first, so did that, after month no good, didn't expect much, as they're funded by the Airlines. So I put in complaint with Office of Fair Trading a few weeks ago.
So contact ACCC to get them to record your situation and then put in complaint with OFT-(Office of Fair Trading).
I did get a phone call reply from Alan Joyce personal assistant to say its out of there jurisdiction, but send a email anyway.
So contact ACCC to get them to record your situation and then put in complaint with OFT-(Office of Fair Trading).
I did get a phone call reply from Alan Joyce personal assistant to say its out of there jurisdiction, but send a email anyway.
Last edited by Brewy; Oct 14, 2017 at 7:41 pm Reason: My qoute didnt attach.
Oct 14, 2017, 7:26 pm
#38
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 8
Hi Brewy,
My husband has also just realised he has lost over 130,000 QFF points and I lost 20,000, however mine only expired within the last few months so Qantas have offered me the 2500 points program, although we flew Jetstar in Feb and the points didn't appear like they should have and they wouldn't have expired.
They claim because my husbands points expired 31/10/16, he is not eligible for the 2500 points redemption program which is rubbish if you ask me. Reading other peoples blogs, apparently the 'expiring points' email is hidden within the monthly statement and NOT clear.
We also want to fight our points expiring as I also thought Woolworths were still linked and we were scanning our card.
How did you go with you pursuits, is it worth fighting as it appears alot of people have been screwed over.
Thanks, Miss Jane
My husband has also just realised he has lost over 130,000 QFF points and I lost 20,000, however mine only expired within the last few months so Qantas have offered me the 2500 points program, although we flew Jetstar in Feb and the points didn't appear like they should have and they wouldn't have expired.
They claim because my husbands points expired 31/10/16, he is not eligible for the 2500 points redemption program which is rubbish if you ask me. Reading other peoples blogs, apparently the 'expiring points' email is hidden within the monthly statement and NOT clear.
We also want to fight our points expiring as I also thought Woolworths were still linked and we were scanning our card.
How did you go with you pursuits, is it worth fighting as it appears alot of people have been screwed over.
Thanks, Miss Jane
Oct 14, 2017, 7:37 pm
#39
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 8
[QUOTE=Mozo;28929142]Couldn't agree more Brewy, Qantas is clearly trying hide the fact that points are expiring.
How hard would it be for them to send a seperate email with the subject line 'Points Expiring Soon'
No instead they choose to hide it in the hope that loyal customers who have kept them in business will miss it and lose their hard earned points - how's that for loyalty!!
Whoever thought this practice up should be fired but instead probably received a promotion.
I never received any emails, in fine print or not, warning me of my point expiry.
I'll be emailing Alan Joyce now, no way I'm giving up on this. Did you approach the ACCC?[/Q
Hi MOZO, I contacted ACCC first and they recorded my complaint and said if they get multiple complaints about this situation, they will act and they said contact ACA-(Airline Customer Advocate) first, so did that, after month no good, didn't expect much, as they're funded by the Airlines. So I put in complaint with Office of Fair Trading a few weeks ago.
So contact ACCC to get them to record your situation and then put in complaint with OFT-(Office of Fair Trading).
I did get a phone call reply from Alan Joyce personal assistant to say its out of there jurisdiction, but send a email anyway.
How hard would it be for them to send a seperate email with the subject line 'Points Expiring Soon'
No instead they choose to hide it in the hope that loyal customers who have kept them in business will miss it and lose their hard earned points - how's that for loyalty!!
Whoever thought this practice up should be fired but instead probably received a promotion.
I never received any emails, in fine print or not, warning me of my point expiry.
I'll be emailing Alan Joyce now, no way I'm giving up on this. Did you approach the ACCC?[/Q
Hi MOZO, I contacted ACCC first and they recorded my complaint and said if they get multiple complaints about this situation, they will act and they said contact ACA-(Airline Customer Advocate) first, so did that, after month no good, didn't expect much, as they're funded by the Airlines. So I put in complaint with Office of Fair Trading a few weeks ago.
So contact ACCC to get them to record your situation and then put in complaint with OFT-(Office of Fair Trading).
I did get a phone call reply from Alan Joyce personal assistant to say its out of there jurisdiction, but send a email anyway.
Oct 17, 2017, 12:13 am
#40
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2008
Programs: Emirates Skywards, Delta Skymiles, Continental Onepass, etc.
Posts: 114
In the end I had to take a last minute domestic flight on Jet Airways (in India) and i made sure the booking class qualified for QF miles. The miles didn't post automatically, but I applied for missing miles via qantas.com and after checking my account daily, was eventually pleasantly surprised to find 200 points in my account, and my missing 8k+ miles and also automatically reinstated.
It took quite some effort, but was ultimately worth it!
--ATD
It took quite some effort, but was ultimately worth it!
--ATD
Oct 17, 2017, 5:00 pm
#42
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne
Programs: ►QFWP/LTG►VA WP►HyattExpl.►HiltonGold►ALL Silver
Posts: 21,994
Welcome to FT. 
I think not - it's more like two categories of earn.
When logged on to your QFF account you can seat a categorised points earn.
e.g. "Food and Wine", "Shopping", "Cards and Banking" etc. are all separate categories.
I think not - it's more like two categories of earn.
When logged on to your QFF account you can seat a categorised points earn.
e.g. "Food and Wine", "Shopping", "Cards and Banking" etc. are all separate categories.
Oct 24, 2017, 1:01 am
#43
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: AVV
Programs: QF, HH
Posts: 1,112
Originally Posted by Mwenenzi
...They do expect people who are a member of the frequent flyer loyalty program to have an eligible activity at least once in 18 months to keep points alive. Living in Australia this is not hard for many people. Many people seem to overlook/ignore the frequent part...
Now earning points to claim for flights, accomodation, wine and other 'free' goodies is all well and jolly good. But really, when it comes down to it, the QFF program was designed to reward their most frequent and loyal customers. Speaking objectively, why should they bother to reward the least of these who rarely do business with them?
Even I am not that regular a QF flyer. I do consider myself loyal to the brand, however, and all that it represents. I value my points, because I know what I can get and where they could take me. However, it is so easy to take them for granted. FF miles, or points, are, in essence, a luxury. They are an added bonus earned for what we already do; fly and spend with that brand.
Of course, some folks go out of their way to earn more points with said airline. In which case, the more they spend, the more they earn and hence the more they save
It's no secret to know that FF programs are actually a valuable business asset for airlines and global hotel chains; they do not lose money from these schemes.All said, perhaps this is a gentle (in some cases not so gentle) reminder for us to all go check our inboxes and QFF accounts and look at the fine print...
Some years ago I flew a bunch of LH flights within the space of a few months, and then again a year later. These flights earned me 6000 points, however I then returned to Australia and haven't left the country on a LH or LH-codeshare flight since, since QF is my preferred loyalty program given my location and pick of regular destinations. Needless to say, my points expired before I found a use for them (should have tried to gift them to someone, actually). Sure, it was certainly a pity. But then, that was about 3 years after any LH expenditure whatsoever, so completely understandable on their part.
Oct 24, 2017, 2:53 pm
#44
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cairns, Australia
Posts: 924
....a case in point... I've accrued 193,000 points in the last 12 months and whereas I've accrued 25,500 on flights (mostly on a couple of BA, not QF, business / first class) against just one QF operated flight, the rest of those on credit card transfer when on bonus (93,500) and shopping when on Xmas bonuses and a cursory number from Woolworths Rewards (12,000), Epiqure wine picking up then bonuses (60,000) and hotels when on bonus (2,500).
There is nothing remotely "flyer" or "frequent" about that!
QF is happy - it's sold those points to partner organisations and made the cash revenue. It continues to add point accrual partners so it can sell ever more points for cash.
But my "flight loyalty" is far more likely to be booked to SQ , AA or Alaska Airlines due to better earn / burn rates and absence of fuel (oops carrier) charges.
Living in CNS the QF points are still of use to access CX reward flights and CX / other OneWorld partners and EK thereafter through HKG wherein the excessive fuel (oops carrier charges) levied by QF do not apply!
Ironically, as QF LTG I am released from any continuing sense of "loyalty" to QF!
Oct 24, 2017, 3:04 pm
#45
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cairns, Australia
Posts: 924
So true. Hard as the reality is for some, I think this is something that is so often overlooked by many. With 10 million QFF members, how many are actually frequent flyers and truly loyal to the program, I wonder?
Now earning points to claim for flights, accomodation, wine and other 'free' goodies is all well and jolly good. But really, when it comes down to it, the QFF program was designed to reward their most frequent and loyal customers. Speaking objectively, why should they bother to reward the least of these who rarely do business with them?
Now earning points to claim for flights, accomodation, wine and other 'free' goodies is all well and jolly good. But really, when it comes down to it, the QFF program was designed to reward their most frequent and loyal customers. Speaking objectively, why should they bother to reward the least of these who rarely do business with them?
With a growing list of partners you don't need to do business with QF directly to accrue a points balance.
QF is happy to sell its points those partners - it gets cash for that!
Whatever the member's activity, QF also gets access to an enormous database for marketing purposes - for example see
http://www.qantasloyalty.com/brands-...es/red-planet/
Of course points wastage / expiry is in its interests since the cash liability is only realised when a member redeems for an award. Got the hard cash, but doesn't have to deliver for it!
Oh, and it is possible for a member to have huge point balance and have points transfer activity and lose those points (see separate thread on points expiry wherein a transfer from a credit card was not deemed to be earn activity by QF - already exhaustively discussed) so "loyalty" can be done way street.
Viewing QF FF as primarily a frequent flyer loyalty program is history!
Smarts FFers know this!