Flyer “Processed” (Arrested?) in NM After Declining to Show ID
Nov 16, 2009, 10:17 pm
#106
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What does "RDT Releasing - Female" mean?
http://www.bernco.gov/upload/images/...0&bo=130573629
EDIT 22:23 MST: Link now shows nothing but "Charges Not Available." Looks like he was released or just about to be released as of this edit. And their computer is 7 minutes fast, showing 10:31 in Albuquerque.
http://www.bernco.gov/upload/images/...0&bo=130573629
EDIT 22:23 MST: Link now shows nothing but "Charges Not Available." Looks like he was released or just about to be released as of this edit. And their computer is 7 minutes fast, showing 10:31 in Albuquerque.
Last edited by ArizonaGuy; Nov 16, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Nov 16, 2009, 10:32 pm
#108
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Nov 16, 2009, 10:36 pm
#109
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I will try to answer this question as best i can.
The time from arrest to presentation before a judge for either arriagnment of formal charges can vary. (gee isn't that convienent). The basic rule of thumb that is used is that the delay cannot be unreasonable. Most areas that i have seen typically try to have the charges and bail set within 8 hours for relatively common offenses. For more complex or less common offenses, i have seen it take between 24 and 48 hours (typically these are weekend arrests for big crimes like murder.) Also playing into the reasonable standard are other things that are going on related to the case. For example if the indication is that there may be more going on, they can hold the person longer until they can verify one way or the other on this.
Now even if the authorities drag their feet in doing everything the only real recourse a person has is a habeaous petition. On the rare occassion when they take too long a judge might dismiss the case, but that is rare.
To get to a more formal answer i would have to do a bit of research to get to the bottom of this. (most of the above is from my criminal procedure class)
As for the charges that are against our friend here, I think there are one or two that may stick depending on the overall facts. I think it is likely that the disorderly will get dismissed, unless the video shows a big scene getting created and the criminal trespass. I think the ones that will stick are the concelling identity and failure to obey. These are the two that are two that have the most wiggle room for the state. Specifically, NM may have a rule that a person must obey any lawful request from a LEO to the extent possible. Thus, if phil had a license or passport in his posession he may be required to produce it when demanded by an officer, so long as the request is lawful. Given that they have a statute for identity, the request may be lawful and thus the withholding of the actual ID when in possession could be the trip. (i hope this makes sense).
In the end, i am not sure how this is going to come out. My guess is that TSA comes out and says that ID is not required to fly, but if you have it in your possession then you must present it. They will use local laws to back up this position.
I hate the ID to pass the checkpoint rule. It does nothing. I can understand the airlines requiring it (they have a business reason), but not the feds to enter a sterile area.
The time from arrest to presentation before a judge for either arriagnment of formal charges can vary. (gee isn't that convienent). The basic rule of thumb that is used is that the delay cannot be unreasonable. Most areas that i have seen typically try to have the charges and bail set within 8 hours for relatively common offenses. For more complex or less common offenses, i have seen it take between 24 and 48 hours (typically these are weekend arrests for big crimes like murder.) Also playing into the reasonable standard are other things that are going on related to the case. For example if the indication is that there may be more going on, they can hold the person longer until they can verify one way or the other on this.
Now even if the authorities drag their feet in doing everything the only real recourse a person has is a habeaous petition. On the rare occassion when they take too long a judge might dismiss the case, but that is rare.
To get to a more formal answer i would have to do a bit of research to get to the bottom of this. (most of the above is from my criminal procedure class)
As for the charges that are against our friend here, I think there are one or two that may stick depending on the overall facts. I think it is likely that the disorderly will get dismissed, unless the video shows a big scene getting created and the criminal trespass. I think the ones that will stick are the concelling identity and failure to obey. These are the two that are two that have the most wiggle room for the state. Specifically, NM may have a rule that a person must obey any lawful request from a LEO to the extent possible. Thus, if phil had a license or passport in his posession he may be required to produce it when demanded by an officer, so long as the request is lawful. Given that they have a statute for identity, the request may be lawful and thus the withholding of the actual ID when in possession could be the trip. (i hope this makes sense).
In the end, i am not sure how this is going to come out. My guess is that TSA comes out and says that ID is not required to fly, but if you have it in your possession then you must present it. They will use local laws to back up this position.
I hate the ID to pass the checkpoint rule. It does nothing. I can understand the airlines requiring it (they have a business reason), but not the feds to enter a sterile area.
However, since the local LEO's arrested Phil, not the TSA, I don't see that it matters much either way
Nov 16, 2009, 10:53 pm
#110
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 376
http://research.lawyers.com/glossary...ve-search.html
This is pretty standard and is to prevent just this type of crap that the TSA is pulling. One curious relevant incident lately would be the child porn case in HI. My close reading says that the evidence found by the TSO is wholly invalid, but almost all jurists you will find rule more from Camara a decision I am not so fond of 
This I am not so sure of or clear on, but I would assume that given the only instance where this would come up would be either:
-leaving the UK for the US. Requires a passport so its irrelevant.
-while in the US. Technically its not legal ID so it doesn't matter. The only legal ID a foreign national would have in this country is their passport or passport card. The exception where one would be expected to produce their UK drivers license would be as part of an international drivers license wherein the spirit of UK law isn't violated anyways.
The caveat is that LEOs have pretty large range in acceptable identification. If you tell a US LEO your from the UK they will (should) by rule ask for a passport, however, YMMSeriouslyV
**I am not providing ANYONE legal advice**
Administrative Search - an inspection or search carried out under a regulatory or statutory scheme esp. in public or commercial premises and usu. to enforce compliance with regulations or laws pertaining to health, safety, or security <one of the fundamental principles of administrative searches is that the government may not use an administrative inspection scheme as a pretext to search for evidence of criminal violations .People v. Madison, 520 N.E.2d 374 (1988)>
Does UK law extend into the US?
-leaving the UK for the US. Requires a passport so its irrelevant.
-while in the US. Technically its not legal ID so it doesn't matter. The only legal ID a foreign national would have in this country is their passport or passport card. The exception where one would be expected to produce their UK drivers license would be as part of an international drivers license wherein the spirit of UK law isn't violated anyways.
The caveat is that LEOs have pretty large range in acceptable identification. If you tell a US LEO your from the UK they will (should) by rule ask for a passport, however, YMMSeriouslyV
**I am not providing ANYONE legal advice**
Nov 16, 2009, 11:06 pm
#111
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Voter records are an easier way to look up a friend's address than the phone book.
Nov 16, 2009, 11:27 pm
#112
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Back on the relevant (sort of) topic of the thread...governments use things like these public websites to try and shame those who break the law and encourage some level of extrajudicial compliance. The thought of your arrest details and potentially picture on 'the google' long term can cause a very different reaction compared to having an arrest and charges on your police record. Especially if the potential charge is silly and likely to be dismissed. Google doesn't know your were found innocent (or at least not as blatantly)
Nov 16, 2009, 11:34 pm
#113
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Its amaziing what you can find in the public record in this country, and with the assistance of google, well, hows the garage roof?
Back on the relevant (sort of) topic of the thread...governments use things like these public websites to try and shame those who break the law and encourage some level of extrajudicial compliance. The thought of your arrest details and potentially picture on 'the google' long term can cause a very different reaction compared to having an arrest and charges on your police record. Especially if the potential charge is silly and likely to be dismissed. Google doesn't know your were found innocent (or at least not as blatantly)
Back on the relevant (sort of) topic of the thread...governments use things like these public websites to try and shame those who break the law and encourage some level of extrajudicial compliance. The thought of your arrest details and potentially picture on 'the google' long term can cause a very different reaction compared to having an arrest and charges on your police record. Especially if the potential charge is silly and likely to be dismissed. Google doesn't know your were found innocent (or at least not as blatantly)
Nov 17, 2009, 12:16 am
#114
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
free man, here
I haven't read more than the first page of this post, but I thought I'd pop in and say that I was released about an hour ago and am in the lobby of the hotel where my colleague and I are staying, IMing with folks back at CDC. Apparently there's an attorney who's interested and wanted me to call at any hour when I got out, so I'm trying to get into my room to use the phone. All my belongings, save clothes on my back and cash, are still at the ABQ police station.
I'm deeply, deeply, thankful to all the support that's turning up. The Internet paid my bail!
I'm deeply, deeply, thankful to all the support that's turning up. The Internet paid my bail!
Nov 17, 2009, 12:18 am
#115
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Nov 17, 2009, 12:22 am
#116
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I haven't read more than the first page of this post, but I thought I'd pop in and say that I was released about an hour ago and am in the lobby of the hotel where my colleague and I are staying, IMing with folks back at CDC. Apparently there's an attorney who's interested and wanted me to call at any hour when I got out, so I'm trying to get into my room to use the phone. All my belongings, save clothes on my back and cash, are still at the ABQ police station.
I'm deeply, deeply, thankful to all the support that's turning up. The Internet paid my bail!
I'm deeply, deeply, thankful to all the support that's turning up. The Internet paid my bail!
Last edited by N830MH; Nov 17, 2009 at 12:27 am
Nov 17, 2009, 12:24 am
#117
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Nov 17, 2009, 12:31 am
#118
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Me neither. He won't have any his necessary to show ID & BP along with them. He must to be obey the laws to says, am I correct? I am not aware about of his behavior at airport today. He should have to keep away from terminals or anywhere go back into the property. ABQ police will be eventually to arrested again. He need to be more respectable with the laws and don't go back to terminal anymore without proper ID & boarding pass. I know he is not work airport without SIDA badge or airlines badge, too.
Nov 17, 2009, 1:44 am
#119
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
Phil -- It's pretty obvious and folks have stated this before, but, in the heat of battle when you're a free citizen again, please don't compromise the integrity of any legal action you plan to take by blabbing about it here on FT or on any other public blog. Heck, don't even talk about the incident on any medium which could be used against you. Lots of us are pulling for you.
As much as we want to know the gory details down to the color of the cop's eyebrows, please resist the temptation. I'm torn about going public with the video your companion was able to take before being detained himself. I would certainly make sure you have a duplicate copy of it. If you decide to post it on Youtube or somewhere else, I would let the record stand and don't include any commentary beyond time, date, place, etc. Chances are good that PV will provide all sorts of opportunity for people to vent on the incident.
If anyone on FT has a closer relationship with Phil, perhaps some reinforcing via PM would be appropriate.
As much as we want to know the gory details down to the color of the cop's eyebrows, please resist the temptation. I'm torn about going public with the video your companion was able to take before being detained himself. I would certainly make sure you have a duplicate copy of it. If you decide to post it on Youtube or somewhere else, I would let the record stand and don't include any commentary beyond time, date, place, etc. Chances are good that PV will provide all sorts of opportunity for people to vent on the incident.
If anyone on FT has a closer relationship with Phil, perhaps some reinforcing via PM would be appropriate.
Nov 17, 2009, 1:51 am
#120
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,919
-leaving the UK for the US. Requires a passport so its irrelevant.
-while in the US. Technically its not legal ID so it doesn't matter. The only legal ID a foreign national would have in this country is their passport or passport card
Trying telling that to the TSO in EWR on my way to Huston, Texas. Since I am a foreign visitor the only LEGAL ID while in the US is my passport but no she wanted my divers license when I questioned the reason for that since my german DL isn't legel ID (not even in germany by the way - needs to be accompanied by my ID card) the answer I got was to do as she told me. Running late on my connection I figured I wouldn't question her doubtful request. it did however leave me shaking my head
-while in the US. Technically its not legal ID so it doesn't matter. The only legal ID a foreign national would have in this country is their passport or passport card
Trying telling that to the TSO in EWR on my way to Huston, Texas. Since I am a foreign visitor the only LEGAL ID while in the US is my passport but no she wanted my divers license when I questioned the reason for that since my german DL isn't legel ID (not even in germany by the way - needs to be accompanied by my ID card) the answer I got was to do as she told me. Running late on my connection I figured I wouldn't question her doubtful request. it did however leave me shaking my head