May 5, 2014, 8:21 pm
Last edit by: Arcanum
Flights operated by Air Canada rouge
NOTE: Rouge Wifi information can be found here
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-c...l#post28448087
Dates in brackets indicate planned start of rouge service (either as a new route or replacing mainline service). ML placed before a date indicates the date that service is reverting to mainline.
All Airbus A319/A321 service is in the new Premium Rouge configuration with 2x2J seats. All other routes are Boeing 767-300ER aircraft in a 24J/258Y layout.
Airport codes in blue indicate that these routes are Boeing 767-300ER aircraft for all services.
Airport codes in red indicate that these routes are split between Boeing 767-300ER and Airbus services.
Airport codes in black indicate that these routes are Airbus aircraft for all services.
Routes are organized based on the established rouge bases of YYZ, YUL, YYC, and YVR
*Seasonal Summer Service
YYZ
Canada
YQT YQY YXX YLW YYG (02MAY-OCT) YDF YQB YQM (01MAY19) YFC (01JUL19)
USA
MCO TPA LAS FLL HNL SRQ RSW SAN PHX MIA PSP (14DEC16)
Mexico
CUN PVR SJD
Caribbean
KIN NAS LIR GND MBJ AZS CCC CUR HUX PUJ POP SKB SJO SXM LRM HOG SNU UVF VRA BGI (07JAN) POS (21DEC16)
Europe
ATH BCN EDI VCE MAN LIS PRG BUD GLA LGW
Central and South America
LIM BOG PTY
YUL
USA
LAS MCO FLL PBI TPA MIA
Mexico
CUN MEX PVR (18NOV16)
Caribbean
ZSA CCC HOG PUJ SNU PLS POP PAP NAS (17JAN) PTP
Europe
FCO ATH BCN NCE VCE
Central and South America
SJO (22DEC16)
Africa
CMN
YYC
Canada
YHZ* YHM (2016)
USA
LAS PHX (winter only - PHX AC Express in summer)
YVR
USA
LAS HNL OGG PHX PSP KOA SAN (02JUN)
Mexico
CUN PVR
Asia
KIX
Europe
DUB LGA KEF
What to Do If Your Flight Has Been Rouged According to the AC Rep "Air Canada Altitude": call AC Reservations, cancel and get a refund.
Air Canada rouge, a leisure airline
Aug 29, 2014, 12:40 pm
#3661
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,309
How many people out there still think Rouge is AC, and have no idea. You don't think people will start equating Rouge sucks with AC sucks?
Aug 29, 2014, 1:17 pm
#3662
Join Date: Dec 2013
Programs: AC, A3*G AB-G
Posts: 155
The irony is s/he contributes to the product s/he decided not to fly. AC knows the only way to scoop some of the heavy traffic on California<>SYD is undercutting price. I’m sure a noticeable portion of the mid-AM Rouge YVR-LAX/SFO flights are price-sensitive connecting passengers who didn’t want to pay the premium non-stop prices from QF, UA, VA, DL.
Funny how when AC engages in price wars with new market entrants it does not feel the need to Rouge those routes at the same time due to the inevitable poor yield.
Aug 29, 2014, 1:17 pm
#3663
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 5,813
I mean, you don't buy a Corolla and complain while driving it that it doesn't accelerate like a Corvette.
Truth is, passengers driven by price might complain and swear off Spirit/Rouge/Sunwing/Transat ... Until the next time they're travelling and nobody's cheaper
Aug 29, 2014, 1:25 pm
#3664
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 5,813
AA (Regional) is a new entrant on YVRLAX and AC is sending Rouge.
They're deploying Rouge in YYC and YVR - 2 Westjet markets.
Aug 29, 2014, 1:45 pm
#3666
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Never home.
Posts: 2,971
I wasn't following that route very closely, but if AC is charging $700RT and Virgin comes in at $450, should AC not match them down to $450? It would be insane to not respond to new competition.
Virgin then pulled out, and AC presumably increases its prices again. That is the market... it isn't that AC used anti-competitive practices, you can bet had there were that Virgin would have sued.
Besides, I'm confused as to what your position actually is....
...are you serious in thinking if AC is facing a price war they should Rouge the route? As has been screamed from the hills on this forum mainline and Rouge are quite different... obviously AC isn't planning on Rouging everything and the product is inadequate for certain markets. If the price war drags on long term and the route becomes low yielding, sure I could see it go Rouge.
Virgin then pulled out, and AC presumably increases its prices again. That is the market... it isn't that AC used anti-competitive practices, you can bet had there were that Virgin would have sued.
Besides, I'm confused as to what your position actually is....
...are you serious in thinking if AC is facing a price war they should Rouge the route? As has been screamed from the hills on this forum mainline and Rouge are quite different... obviously AC isn't planning on Rouging everything and the product is inadequate for certain markets. If the price war drags on long term and the route becomes low yielding, sure I could see it go Rouge.
Aug 29, 2014, 1:56 pm
#3668
Join Date: Dec 2013
Programs: AC, A3*G AB-G
Posts: 155
Winnipegrev, you jumped in mid-exchange and are replying out of context to my comments. I was discussing what I considered to be classic "blame the customer for buying at the price that was being offered" attitude, where AC is by definition the victim and needs to defend itself against the cheap hoards of budget backpackers (sort of oversimplifying here... but sometime a caricature delivers the core message better a lifelike portrait).
And I never said anything about anti-competitive... nobody is (or at least I am not) suggesting that AC is doing something illegal.
And I never said anything about anti-competitive... nobody is (or at least I am not) suggesting that AC is doing something illegal.
Aug 29, 2014, 3:14 pm
#3670
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
The criteria itself:
- Reviews of alleged abuses of dominance in the airline industry will be triggered only by significant responses by a dominant carrier to existing competition or to new entry, not by a carrier's usual seasonal or operational practices;
- The Bureau recognizes that there can be legitimate business reasons for an airline to operate a flight below its avoidable costs. As such, operating capacity below avoidable costs will not necessarily give rise to enforcement action in all circumstances; and
-As a general principle, the Bureau will not take enforcement action where a dominant carrier responds to competition by reducing its fares to match, but not undercut, the fares of a competitor. This signals a qualified tolerance of fare matching, which is a softening of the Bureau's previous position on this key issue. However, the Commissioner's letter also states that if such fare reductions are accompanied by a significant increase in capacity, or an increase in the number of seats available at the lowest price, the Bureau will consider whether enforcement action is appropriate.
I dont know enough about what happened but who knows how it might have turned out if VX had kicked up a fuss.
Aug 29, 2014, 5:44 pm
#3671
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The World
Programs: WS Platinum, Marriott Titanium, DL Gold, UA Silver
Posts: 1,478
On Rouge, it's a totally different - and IMO utterly awful - experience. My legs fit and my flight is comfortable on every AC product except for Rouge.
(Same goes for UA and UAX. The two offer a consistent experience and consistent brand, just smaller aircraft -- most pax don't even know the difference. Absolutely nothing like AC vs ACR.)
I wouldn't put any carrier's regional carrier offering in the same boat as Spirit, Allegiant, or Rouge. No comparison. Entirely different experience, and entirely different value prop (well, on Spirit or Allegiant, at least).
Last edited by FlyerJ; Aug 29, 2014 at 5:49 pm
Aug 30, 2014, 8:55 am
#3672
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 5,813
Passengers might book AC 5678 on Air Canada's website and find themselves on a crammed Skywest CR2. How different is that experience and product from Rouge?
Aug 30, 2014, 10:11 am
#3673
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The World
Programs: WS Platinum, Marriott Titanium, DL Gold, UA Silver
Posts: 1,478
Odd that you wouldn't include CR2? Likely the experience the poster was specifically referring to in his Express mention.
Passengers might book AC 5678 on Air Canada's website and find themselves on a crammed Skywest CR2. How different is that experience and product from Rouge?
Passengers might book AC 5678 on Air Canada's website and find themselves on a crammed Skywest CR2. How different is that experience and product from Rouge?
2. On a UAX CR2, my fellow PAX knees will not be driven into my back for the duration of the flight, just like mainline. On ACR, they will.
3. On any AC mainline or Express or UA codeshare flight, I can be assured to receive a basic level of physical comfort. On an ACR 319, I can be assured to be physically assaulted.
There are always going to be differences between aircraft in a fleet. The 787 experience and comfort will always be somewhat different than the 320. There will always be better and worse aircraft with better and worse features. That in no way validates or justifies shoehorning customers into ridiculously small seats on Rouge where their backs will be constantly jarred by other PAX knees and their legs, backs will constantly be contorted.
When it comes to AC customers buying AC tickets but flying on UA metal, I've never heard of anyone expressing concern about that being a bait-and-switch, about that harming the Air Canada brand, or about that leading to an unexpectedly awful experience. When it comes to Rouge, the opposite has proven to be quite common.
Sep 2, 2014, 7:33 am
#3674
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: American AAdvantage
Posts: 1,045
I couldn't disagree more. It's entirely different. The experience on an Express E90 or a Jazz CR7 or, heck, even a Q400 is not dissimilar to mainline Air Canada. Smaller aircraft, but a very consistent product and a comfortable experience. I can fit in their seats, my legs will not be crushed for the entire duration of the flight.
No passengers returning from an international long-haul destination from Asia or South America had a surprise with a connection on ATRs or Saabs?
Sep 2, 2014, 8:38 am
#3675
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: A/C 50k, DL Silver, HH Silver
Posts: 5
Flying UA now
It took Rouge PHX-YYZ for me to look for another way to LHR this year.
Couldn't live with Rouge seats and pitch for 4 1/2 hours then 7 more hours non-Rouge to LHR.
Price on AC comes in at $1,660 RT. Looked up UA and got $883 with regular seat pitch and 787 TATL. Good bye AC. I can take a lot of bad UA service for $877. Aeroplan may still get may flights credited to them when UA switches to $$ based miles earning.
Couldn't live with Rouge seats and pitch for 4 1/2 hours then 7 more hours non-Rouge to LHR.
Price on AC comes in at $1,660 RT. Looked up UA and got $883 with regular seat pitch and 787 TATL. Good bye AC. I can take a lot of bad UA service for $877. Aeroplan may still get may flights credited to them when UA switches to $$ based miles earning.