WestJet to launch ultra-low-cost carrier 'Swoop’
Jun 21, 2018, 10:57 pm
#226
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,444
Thanks for the detailed review Symmetre. I think the toilet paper is due to the April Fools joke that Swoop did about charging 25c per square, on Facebook quite a few people thought it was actually real, perhaps those people did too!
The standard seats without the extra legroom (150 of the 189 seats) have 29” or 30” compared with mainly 34” for the extra legroom ones (38” for the rear over wing exit row). As they are the “new” WestJet Recaro seats with the high level pocket and thin contoured backrest, knee room in the standard seats is about the same as conventional seats at 31” pitch.
The standard seats without the extra legroom (150 of the 189 seats) have 29” or 30” compared with mainly 34” for the extra legroom ones (38” for the rear over wing exit row). As they are the “new” WestJet Recaro seats with the high level pocket and thin contoured backrest, knee room in the standard seats is about the same as conventional seats at 31” pitch.
Jun 22, 2018, 8:37 am
#228
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,444
The movies and stored TV programs are “free for a limited”: https://www.flyswoop.com/mobile-app.html
Jun 22, 2018, 10:29 am
#229
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: YYG
Programs: airlines and hotels and rental cars - oh my!
Posts: 2,997
LOL ... I didn't know about the April Fool's prank. So look at that, it's two months later and they're still messing with people! Well played!
Having just re-read what I wrote above after a very long day, I hope it doesn't come across negatively because that's not my impression at all. Swoop is just fine for what it is. Shoot, I can't even drive to Halifax for $100 so the value is beyond dispute. If my little taste is anything to go by, then I can see Swoop catching on quickly and being every bit as successful as Ryanair is in Europe.
Having just re-read what I wrote above after a very long day, I hope it doesn't come across negatively because that's not my impression at all. Swoop is just fine for what it is. Shoot, I can't even drive to Halifax for $100 so the value is beyond dispute. If my little taste is anything to go by, then I can see Swoop catching on quickly and being every bit as successful as Ryanair is in Europe.
Jun 22, 2018, 11:20 am
#230
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: YHZ/YQM
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 1,618
I've been thinking of taking a trip to the GTA and have been tempted by Swoop's fares. However the timing and location aren't very good. It looks like a big hassle to get to downtown Toronto, and I worry that most airfare savings would be spent on transit. Landing at 10 PM from Halifax makes for a late night getting to a hotel.
I guess that is life with an LCC.
I guess that is life with an LCC.
Jun 24, 2018, 9:45 am
#232
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 231
I flew YHM-YHZ on Thursday evening and YHZ-YHM last night. In no particular order, here are some things I've noticed:
1) Swoop charging more for a carry-on than a checked bag is great. Most people carried on little to nothing in terms of baggage, so overhead bin space wasn't an issue.
2) The take rate on priority boarding is pretty low. They tout it as "get on early to get bin space," but clearly that's not an issue (see point 1). For last night's flight they paged priority boarding, then general boarding less than a minute later.
3) Lots of children on the flight. Take that for what it's worth.
4) YHM-YHZ was pretty full. YHZ-YHM was a little over half-full. I had a whole row to myself.
5) FAs are pretty green. Not surprising, but a noticeable difference in efficiency and service versus WJ (who I fly with a handful of times every year). On the outbound flight Thursday, The window seat of my row had his tray table down during landing, no one said a thing. Seems to me like most other crews I've experienced would be on the ball about things like that.
6) Flights on Thursday were all available on FR24 for tracking and info. None of yesterday's flights were on there. Why?
7) The app seems a little buggy for check-in and boarding pass. Also no Apple Wallet option for the pass.
8) On-board food/drink prices are quite reasonable.
9) IFE options for movies and TV shows are fairly limited.
My feelings on the experience:
I paid $150 r/t including seat selection at the time of booking (aisle seat in near the back), during one of their introduction sales. I normally fly in Plus with WJ, but since this is supposed to be a ULCC experience I wanted to have as much of that experience as possible. I'm GTA based and fly out of YHM every now and then, so I don't have an issue with that if the deal is good. I think the Swoop experience was good value for a short flight to one of my favourite Canadian cities.
As for the bad: I was let down by the service provided by the GAs and FAs. As an avid WJ traveler I've come to enjoy the personality, fun and friendliness that their staff give to the customers. There's always a smile, some jokes, and alert and attentive service, often with a personal touch. I had high hopes for Swoop following suit based on their social media presence (ie: the toilet paper joke, you must be this tall to travel, etc.) and the interactions I've had with their CS leading up to my trip. Unfortunately the GAs and FAs didn't carry on this experience for either flight. It's not like they were bad in any way, or mean, but they just didn't have the WestJet "it" when it comes to making a customer feel welcome and making it an enjoyable flight. Maybe this will take time to come around, or maybe my expectations were too high.
I think Symmetre summed it up well with these words: "Swoop is just fine for what it is." I may fly with them again, but I'm too invested in WJ to give them up. I don't think I'm their target customer anyways.
1) Swoop charging more for a carry-on than a checked bag is great. Most people carried on little to nothing in terms of baggage, so overhead bin space wasn't an issue.
2) The take rate on priority boarding is pretty low. They tout it as "get on early to get bin space," but clearly that's not an issue (see point 1). For last night's flight they paged priority boarding, then general boarding less than a minute later.
3) Lots of children on the flight. Take that for what it's worth.
4) YHM-YHZ was pretty full. YHZ-YHM was a little over half-full. I had a whole row to myself.
5) FAs are pretty green. Not surprising, but a noticeable difference in efficiency and service versus WJ (who I fly with a handful of times every year). On the outbound flight Thursday, The window seat of my row had his tray table down during landing, no one said a thing. Seems to me like most other crews I've experienced would be on the ball about things like that.
6) Flights on Thursday were all available on FR24 for tracking and info. None of yesterday's flights were on there. Why?
7) The app seems a little buggy for check-in and boarding pass. Also no Apple Wallet option for the pass.
8) On-board food/drink prices are quite reasonable.
9) IFE options for movies and TV shows are fairly limited.
My feelings on the experience:
I paid $150 r/t including seat selection at the time of booking (aisle seat in near the back), during one of their introduction sales. I normally fly in Plus with WJ, but since this is supposed to be a ULCC experience I wanted to have as much of that experience as possible. I'm GTA based and fly out of YHM every now and then, so I don't have an issue with that if the deal is good. I think the Swoop experience was good value for a short flight to one of my favourite Canadian cities.
As for the bad: I was let down by the service provided by the GAs and FAs. As an avid WJ traveler I've come to enjoy the personality, fun and friendliness that their staff give to the customers. There's always a smile, some jokes, and alert and attentive service, often with a personal touch. I had high hopes for Swoop following suit based on their social media presence (ie: the toilet paper joke, you must be this tall to travel, etc.) and the interactions I've had with their CS leading up to my trip. Unfortunately the GAs and FAs didn't carry on this experience for either flight. It's not like they were bad in any way, or mean, but they just didn't have the WestJet "it" when it comes to making a customer feel welcome and making it an enjoyable flight. Maybe this will take time to come around, or maybe my expectations were too high.
I think Symmetre summed it up well with these words: "Swoop is just fine for what it is." I may fly with them again, but I'm too invested in WJ to give them up. I don't think I'm their target customer anyways.
Last edited by mxqisit; Jun 24, 2018 at 9:53 am
Jun 25, 2018, 7:57 pm
#233
Join Date: Jan 2007
Programs: No single airline or hotel chain is of much use to me anymore.
Posts: 3,279
I sat next to a Pakistani couple of a Vueling flight that brought their own toilet paper. I am sure there are parts of the world where you would regret not bringing your own.
Jun 29, 2018, 6:23 pm
#234
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Canada
Programs: Marriott Plat; Air Canada E75K; Westjet Platinum
Posts: 1,161
What ticks me off is that WJ decided to Swoop YEG-YXX as of July 26. Now to fly WJ mainline, it turns into YEG-YYC-YXX at triple the price with an added stop and extra 4-5 hours added to the trip. It's absurd. Price goes way up, trip takes a lot longer, adding on a connection. I don't get what WJ is trying to do? Drive away your customers?
Jun 29, 2018, 8:21 pm
#235
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: YYC, Canada
Programs: AC 35k
Posts: 1,898
What ticks me off is that WJ decided to Swoop YEG-YXX as of July 26. Now to fly WJ mainline, it turns into YEG-YYC-YXX at triple the price with an added stop and extra 4-5 hours added to the trip. It's absurd. Price goes way up, trip takes a lot longer, adding on a connection. I don't get what WJ is trying to do? Drive away your customers?
Jul 2, 2018, 6:01 pm
#236
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: Aeroplan, BA Executive Club, Asia Miles
Posts: 218
What ticks me off is that WJ decided to Swoop YEG-YXX as of July 26. Now to fly WJ mainline, it turns into YEG-YYC-YXX at triple the price with an added stop and extra 4-5 hours added to the trip. It's absurd. Price goes way up, trip takes a lot longer, adding on a connection. I don't get what WJ is trying to do? Drive away your customers?
I've been loving it ever since NewLeaf - now Flair - started flying. I travel to YEG regularly from Metro Vancouver, with YXX taking 15 minutes longer to drive to than YVR.I would say over the past couple years I've snatched 1/2 dozen cheap WS flights out of YXX that have been competing price wise with Flair. It was so nice to pay the ULCC price and get regular WS service.
In most of my reading of Swoop analyst say they are aiming at not canabilizing their current customers - however YXX-YEG is an exception.
Jul 5, 2018, 8:58 am
#237
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 231
If it helps soften the blow at all, YXX-YEG is on sale for $19 one-way with Swoop.
https://nextdeparture.ca/flight-deal...woop-airlines/
https://nextdeparture.ca/flight-deal...woop-airlines/
Jul 5, 2018, 9:37 am
#238
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 797
And keep in mind that Flair pilots can strike pretty much any time now.
Unifor2002 - Members at Flair Airlines Reject Tentative Agreement
i wouldn’t bet on Flair surviving any work stoppage.
WJ, with 4 aircraft, managed in Sept 1996, by refunding all fares, not laying off anyone, and having about $7m cash in the bank, and Ontario Teachers Pension fund in their corner.
In todays dollars, with Flairs larger fleet, oil at 3x+ the price and inflation, they’d need $15m in unencumbered, unrestricted cash to survive any sort of stoppage.
They haven’t got a fraction of that, unless someone doubles down on their investment, just as the booking curve starts to move beyond Labor Day.
Not for the feint of heart.
Unifor2002 - Members at Flair Airlines Reject Tentative Agreement
i wouldn’t bet on Flair surviving any work stoppage.
WJ, with 4 aircraft, managed in Sept 1996, by refunding all fares, not laying off anyone, and having about $7m cash in the bank, and Ontario Teachers Pension fund in their corner.
In todays dollars, with Flairs larger fleet, oil at 3x+ the price and inflation, they’d need $15m in unencumbered, unrestricted cash to survive any sort of stoppage.
They haven’t got a fraction of that, unless someone doubles down on their investment, just as the booking curve starts to move beyond Labor Day.
Not for the feint of heart.
Jul 5, 2018, 1:02 pm
#239
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: YWG
Programs: Aeroplan, MileagePlus, Marriott Rewards
Posts: 2,159
And keep in mind that Flair pilots can strike pretty much any time now.
Unifor2002 - Members at Flair Airlines Reject Tentative Agreement
i wouldn’t bet on Flair surviving any work stoppage.
WJ, with 4 aircraft, managed in Sept 1996, by refunding all fares, not laying off anyone, and having about $7m cash in the bank, and Ontario Teachers Pension fund in their corner.
In todays dollars, with Flairs larger fleet, oil at 3x+ the price and inflation, they’d need $15m in unencumbered, unrestricted cash to survive any sort of stoppage.
They haven’t got a fraction of that, unless someone doubles down on their investment, just as the booking curve starts to move beyond Labor Day.
Not for the feint of heart.
Unifor2002 - Members at Flair Airlines Reject Tentative Agreement
i wouldn’t bet on Flair surviving any work stoppage.
WJ, with 4 aircraft, managed in Sept 1996, by refunding all fares, not laying off anyone, and having about $7m cash in the bank, and Ontario Teachers Pension fund in their corner.
In todays dollars, with Flairs larger fleet, oil at 3x+ the price and inflation, they’d need $15m in unencumbered, unrestricted cash to survive any sort of stoppage.
They haven’t got a fraction of that, unless someone doubles down on their investment, just as the booking curve starts to move beyond Labor Day.
Not for the feint of heart.
Jul 5, 2018, 7:08 pm
#240
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,003
Plenty of jobs for pilots.
If you have poor pay and working conditions there is nothing to lose by going on strike.
If I'm not mistaken, Flair is owned by Kelowna Flightcraft.
They've been through they're fair share of economic ups and downs.
If you have poor pay and working conditions there is nothing to lose by going on strike.
If I'm not mistaken, Flair is owned by Kelowna Flightcraft.
They've been through they're fair share of economic ups and downs.